Lets say Obama was a MUSLIM would it be mean a hill of beans? The other day I got into a discussion with my grandfather about this very subject. Surprisingly to me it really was a deciding factor to him. I believe that religion should not have anything to do with a presidential candidates ability to perform his job as Commander in chief. However my grandfather has in his mind that maybe there is some kind of conspiracy to take a hold on terrorism by becoming President of the United States. He believes that the MUSLIMs already own every hotel and gas station in the United States and all they need now is a President to help them take over. How about them apples. I told him that I didn't see any of that and did not believe the conspiracy theory. I mean come on! Why not some of the other religions taking over the world. I mean I was raised a Baptist and why couldn't we take over the world. This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard!
What if Hillary and Bill are scheming to turn the world into a bunch of methodist ! That would mean about the same as Obama being a Muslim to me. Does it matter who the man prays to?
Tell me what you believe. Does it make a difference if Obama was even 1% Muslim? Does it mean more that he is Black than White? Does it mean more he is a Man than a Woman?
Will any of this make a difference in the outcome of things?
What if Obama is a MUSLIM?
By dantheman4250 - Posted on March 7th, 2008
Tagged: Personal freedom
Personally, I don't care if he is Muslim or not. I don't think he has enough experience to be the President. But yes, I do think that his religion is a factor for a lot of people. We were talking about this in my government class the other day, and when it came to someone saying, "I don't think Obama should be President." when they were asked why the response was, "Because he's Muslim." That is the most ridiculous thing ever. We shouldn't base our decision on religion. It has nothing to do with how he will do if he gets to be President. And I don't think there is a conspiracy.
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*Keep the pictures, they never change, but the people in them do.*
I love when Hillary gets to griping about his lack of experience. The only reason she's ahead of him in experience is that she was First Lady for 8 years. So yes, she was close to the powers that be, but she wasn't one of them. They are pretty equal experience-wise.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman
On Health Care she has far more experience then him, and it shows. She has also been in the Senate since 2001, and by all accounts she's done a good job there (though the vote on the Iraq war was a bad idea).
I'm voting for her because of his inability to answer a simple question in the last Democratic Debate: "if mandates are an undue burden on the poor (as he claimed) then why does your plan have them for children." Her proposal covers more people (as in, it's actually Universal) for less of a per person cost.
Link
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"We cannot redeem evil, we must combat it." -- Jean Paul Sartre
When Bill was in office, she did have a good plan. Now, since she's a career politician herself, she is being supported by drug companies and health insurance companies. Her original policy did not include insurance companies- they're evil. I know from experience.
Actually, his plan requires all children to have coverage, but gives adults the option to opt out. If it's not affordable, his plan helps.
As far as experience goes, he hasn't bowed down to corporations. I like the fact that he hasn't been jaded by politics. He's a good man, and I trust him a lot more than I trust Hillary at this point. Her campaign started the rumors about him being a Muslim because of the fear people still have. She's also been the only candidate this time around to do any mudslinging. I have no respect for that.
From: http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/401/index.html
Anatomy of a Smear:
Timeline of a Smear
2006: The first chain e-mail circulated on the Internet contending that Obama is Muslim. (Politifact and other fact-checking websites have been unable to pinpoint the exact date)
Jan. 17, 2007: A discredited news story from InsightMag.com, "Hillary's team has questions about Obama's Muslim background," reported that Obama had attended a madrassa, an Islamic religious school, as a child.
Jan. 19, 2007: Fox News' Fox & Friend First and Fox & Friends highlighted the report from InsightMag in its coverage without discrediting it. The weblog Think Progress noted that Fox even took caller comments about the allegations.
Jan. 20, 2007: New York Post article titled 'Osama' Mud Flies at Obama quoted Clinton spokesman Howard Wolfson saying, "We have no connection to this story."
The week of Jan. 20, 2007: CNN, ABC-TV and the Associated Press sent reporters to the school Obama attended and reported that it was not a religious school but a public school.
Jan. 23, 2007: Washington Post article by media columnist Howard Kurtz, "Headmaster Disputes Claim That Obama Attended Islamic School", reported that the school Obama attended was not a religious school but a public school.
MEDIA MATTERS: Media Matters for America
Jan 28, 2007: Washington Post editorial, "Sticks, Stones and Mr. Obama; Misleading aspersions about the senator's background only make the perpetrators look bad", criticized the Insight Magazine article.
March, 15, 2007: A Snopes.com website article titled "The Enemy Within" dispelled the claim that Obama is a "radical, ideological Muslim."
Sept. 16, 2007: A photo of Obama that would later be used as the basis for another negative rumor was taken in Indianola, Iowa, at the Harkin Steak Fry, an annual political event hosted by Sen. Tom Harkin. The caption on the Time photo read, "Respect: Senator Barack Obama, Governor Bill Richardson, Senator Hillary Clinton and Ruth Harkin stand during the national anthem."
Oct. 2007: The first chain e-mail accompanying some version of an e-mailed photo circulated on the Internet questioning Obama's patriotism based on its contention that Obama refused to put his hand over his heart during the Pledge of Allegiance. One of the e-mails read: "He refused to not only put his hand on his heart during the pledge of allegiance, but refused to say the pledge ... how in the hell can a man like this expect to be our next Commander-in-Chief?"
Oct. 27, 2007: Snopes could not find any information substantiating the claim that Obama refused to put his hand over his heart during the Pledge of Allegiance. However, they did say that the following claim, "Photograph shows Barack Obama without his hand over his heart while the U.S. national anthem is being played," is true.
Nov. 9, 2007: The St. Petersburg Times publishes an article "E-mail assailing Obama's patriotism misses mark" pointing to the original Time photograph as evidence that the e-mail rumor makes a false claim. The article also discusses the new phenomenon of chain e-mails "ricocheting" around Internet.
Nov. 11, 2007: A video from ABC News confirmed that the photo was taken during the singing of "The Star-Spangled Banner."
Nov. 29, 2007: The Washington Post publishes an article, "Foes Use Obama's Muslim Ties to Fuel Rumors About Him", by political reporter Perry Bacon Jr. exploring the rumors that Obama was Muslim. The article did not explicitly dispel those rumors.
Dec. 9, 2007: In response to "ferocious" criticism from readers and others, Washington Post ombudsman Deborah Howell addresses Bacon's story in a column titled Refuting, or Feeding, the Rumor Mill. She writes: "My problems with the story...were that Obama's connections to Islam are slender at best; that the rumors were old; and that convincing evidence of their falsity wasn't included in the story."
Dec. 13, 2007: Despite being debunked by mainstream news organizations, the claim that Obama didn't place his hand over his heart during the Pledge of Allegiance is repeated on Bill O' Reilly's show. In response to a caller who says she's disturbed by Obama's alleged action, O'Reilly doesn't correct her and, according to MediaMatters.org, replies: "I think that Obama needs to answer some questions about his point of view, not only on the USA, but on a lot of things."
-Sonja :)
You refuse to address the differences in the plans, but say that his is better because "?", I'm still kind of hazy on that part of your post. Then you post the "timeline" of the Muslim smear after I've already made it clear that I know the smear is bullshit. Why you did not simply put that as a separate post I do not know.
Now, are you going to actually debate health care or are you going to keep BSing
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"We cannot redeem evil, we must combat it." -- Jean Paul Sartre
I should have posted the health care and smear issues separately.
There are differences in the plans, but both would would cover a majority, as opposed to the idea that health is a privilege, not a right. Either would be better. I think I inferred that her original plan was better than what she has now.
The comment about his plan covering all children but giving adults a choice was about the comment you made referring to the debates. It seems like common sense to me that all children should be insured.
I did mention that Clinton has the support of drug companies and health insurance companies now, her biggest opposition in her original health care plan. That makes me nervous.
-Sonja :)
Nice timeline. You should turn it into a blog. I would have given it a 5.
Find out everything you need to know about poop here:
http://progressiveu.org/000701-everything-you-need-know-about-poop
Do we have Universal Healthcare now? No? Because Hillary screwed it up.
We had a Republican Congress when Hillary announced her original Universal health care plan. They seen to believe that health care is a privilege, and by no means a right. It wasn't her "fault" that we don't have Universal health care now. She was the first to present the idea. I don't understand why she didn't continue her fight.
-Sonja :)
That's not true. We had a Democratic-controlled Congress when Hillary unveiled her health plan. AFTER she unveiled her plan, the American public voted the Republicans in.
I had the dates wrong in my head. I thought she unveiled it in '94, when the GOP took over. You're right though, she unveiled it in '93.
I still don't think it's her fault that we don't have universal health care. At least she made the initial effort. You make it sound like the reason we ended up with a GOP-controlled Congress was her universal health care plan. Is that intentional?
-Sonja :)
I think it had something to do with it, given that Republicans were able to saturate American airwaves against a basic platform of the Democratic Party, but I don't think it was the sole reason.
I applaud her efforts at universal healtcare, but the fact is that the steps she and the Clinton administration took set back universal healthcare in this country. The point is that they couldn't do it then; and people are suffering TODAY, 15 years later, because of it. I mean, you don't get more than one chance on lots of issues. And I personally think she really flubbed the health care issue.
Hillary Promised United healthcare I was on my couch! it aired One whole time on tv and the health care system bought her out because she was so in debt how could she refuse! Freakin sellout!!!
Like comments so do I
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Once upon a time in my little mind.
By me Kaity Kat
Just curious,
Hillary has quite a large debt to pay for her campaign. Obama is in the black. His campaign has been financed by the public, not private interest. Doesn't good budgetting and investment hold some weight in the efficacy of a candidate?
Obama has been a senator since 1998.
What is your source for that information. He has been senator for about as long as Sen. Clinton has been I think. I am pretty sure that everyone could not be mistaken, he has 3-4 years Senetorily (yes I made that word up) experience.
A nation of well informed men who have been taught to know and prize the rights which God has given them cannot be enslaved. It is in the region of ignorance that tyranny begins. ~Benjamin Franklin
Love is like a box of chocolates; if you chose wisely you won’t be disappointed and have to spit it out.
~T
She did "win" the Ohio and Texas primaries, but Dems give percentages. Obama is still ahead, and as the vote stands (only 44% counted) he did win the Texas caucus (they had both).
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/
From what most superdelagates are saying, they'll support the popular vote.
-Sonja :)
OK, first of all, please use proper grammar. Second, a space between the paragraphs makes it easier for people to read.
I think the whole Muslim thing is among the most disgusting tactics that his detractors use. Not only is it lying about him, but it is playing upon and inflaming the fears of the uninformed populace toward a group of people.
It isn't pc to say he can't be President because he's black, so now he can't be President because he's (or was a long time ago) a Muslim.
:idk:
"Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos."
Homer Simpson
HE'S NOT A FUCKING MUSLIM.
God, every time I see someone say that he is, or hear about someone saying that he is, I can feel myself getting an inch closer to a rage-induced stroke.
And if he were, I agree with you, it would be completely irrelevent.
My Blog
"We cannot redeem evil, we must combat it." -- Jean Paul Sartre
We might stop demonizing the people of the middle east and they might stop demonizing us, which would be a nice change.
Everything, you have done, and will do, is chemically predisposed by matter, even the fact you are reading this message. You make no choices, only perceive a given reality.
The US has always needed to have an enemy. Before the demonization of the Middle East, we had the Communists to fear. Americans still have a sense of the Red Scare.
The government seems to think that society needs a common enemy to instill "patriotism". In all actuality, they just like to keep the people scared. Obedience is a consequence of fear.
-Sonja :)
Obedience is a consequence of fear.
But it doesn't have to be, if you raise a logical populous, the obiedence can be in their own want for accomplishment by thier own steam. It is because they have a plan forced upon us that it has to be this way. If the plan was logical enough to agree with(and the honesty was there) and the populous had the reasoning to understand that, there would be no need for all the coercion and fear tactics.
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Everything, you have done, and will do, is chemically predisposed by matter, even the fact you are reading this message. You make no choices, only perceive a given reality.
That is a really big if....
Obedience keeps the populous from asking too many questions or demanding what we really need.
-Sonja :)
I know that if is impossible, a truthful government for unity, Ha..
Was just pointing out the possibility.
Its the difference between Authoritative and Authoritarian
Whether you leading or upbringing is done through force or reasoning.
--
Everything, you have done, and will do, is chemically predisposed by matter, even the fact you are reading this message. You make no choices, only perceive a given reality.
I skipped alot fo the comments...I think its cute that this muslum topic spawned a healthcare debate.
I just had this conversation with ass 1 and ass 2 and Girl 2at work last weekend.
Ass 1 said he would not vote for that lousy muslim fuck. Its unconstitutional! I said that is a stupid reason for chosing a leader and asked how it was unconstitutional. Girl 2 pipes in with the right to freedom of speech. Ass 2 agreed with Ass 1 saying hell yeah its unconstitutional "in God we trust". IN GOD We TRUST....consitution???? Me and girl 2 left our military stupidvisors for a break before we did any military career damage.
At least here you people know what your saying for the most part and that "in god we trust' is not a constitution thing.
~T
All truths are easy to understand once discovered; The point is to discover them ~Galileo
In god we trust is only on money and wasn't added until the '50's. And Obama is not Muslim, and Keith Ellison is, and so far has not done anything terrible to the House of Representatives, so why should it matter? Why are people so stupid? It really frightens me that people that dumb are serving in the military. They gove them WEAPONS? REALLY?!
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman
I am sorry but that made me laugh. I was just as pissed too that is why I left. I think Ass 2 is getting kicked out so to speak and ass 1 is biding time till he can find another job. The are basic couch warmers... if any one is given a weapon it would be me and Girl 2!
I also printed out the consitution and another document that people think it says God in but does not (maybe the Preamble) and left it in the office.
I tend to fight quietly and let people think it is their own discovery, that or I like to piss people off when I am not there.
Thanks for the info in the quote...ammunition for my return to CO.
Disclaimer:
I hear they are nutcases out there and do not represent any portion of the military.
~T
All truths are easy to understand once discovered; The point is to discover them ~Galileo
Thank god!
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman
It will be OK, the dumb ones probably won't figure out how to use them. :)
I agree, I get so mad when I hear people saying stupid things like this.
Find out everything you need to know about poop here:
http://progressiveu.org/000701-everything-you-need-know-about-poop
What's really wrong about people saying they won't vote for Obama "because he is Muslim" is that he is NOT. If everyone in this country truly believed in the doctrine of separation of church and state, then we would not have "Under God" in the pledge and this would not be an issue. Religion is such a driving factor in the lives of some Americans that the thought that someone who doesn't hold the same religious beliefs can't hold up in a political office. It seems relatively ignorant to me to believe that religion determines leadership ability.
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*insert sarcastic comment here*