Well, JK Rowling has just finished her book tour in America and revealed some interesting facts about one character in particular. Dumbledore is gay and had unrequited love on Grindlewald. Personally I think it's wonderful. If more children hear about this than they will have a positive, loving, wise fictional role model who is gay.
It's also nice to have a piece of literature that has a gay character in which sex is never a part of. Dumbledore may have had sneaky means that we discovered in the end, but for 6 books we loved him and thought of him as a grandfatherly figure.
I hope that this will not discourage people from Harry Potter, though it most likely will. If you are one of those people than you are quite disappointing and close minded. Remember that these are fictitional characters, but have influenced a whole generation.
I respect J.K. even more because she has such diversity in her books. There is so much to be learned with in them. Love, compassion, good vs evil are all taught in the books. One could write a novel on the themes in the septology, but I will settle with my short blog.
If you haven't yet read Harry Potter I reccommend it highly. The morals and themes are strong in the book. If you haven't because you judged it already well...you are missing out on a fantastic piece of literature.
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i htink its great that she showcased that, no matter how much people like the caharacter, he was gay.
and therefore had to die.
"And therefore had to die?"
So gay people have to die? Okay...
"I am a Stephens Woman."
i dont know what a stephens woman is....
but i sure support Stephen T. ( the T is for Truthiness) Colbert for president!!!
It's my signature. I go to an all girls college and it's something we say.
"I am a Stephens Woman."
Instigator much?
You really do like to piss people off, don't you?
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http://progressiveu.org/003838-the-girl-who-cried-rape-or-in-this-case-d...
why do kids need to think Dumbledore is gay?
what good does that do except encourage MORE homosexuality???
You can't encourage more homosexuality. It's born. You can encourage people to be out, but you can't make someone gay.
"I am a Stephens Woman."
we can encourage kids to bottle it up and hide it!!!
and for gods sake, to NOT act on these unholy impulses!!!!!!
Um not everyone in America is christian. This is a free religion zone.
"I am a Stephens Woman."
I said nothing about Christianity.
and if it IS a free religion zone, then if I were christian I should be able to FREELY make religious comments.
but besides, homosexuality is against nature, and its kind of gross. it freaks me out anyways.
You said unholy. Implying christianity. So yeah you did.
If you look in nature you find gay monkeys, dogs, and other animals. It's not against nature. And who cares if it freaks you out. Then don't practice it, but let other people live how they want free from your judgement.
"I am a Stephens Woman."
Judging implies condeming. If i sent gays to hell, that would be judging.
If I persecuted them, killed them, shot at them etc. that would be judgin.
I am merely saying it is wrong. that is not a judgement, cuz i enforce no punishment. Im the jury. a MEMBER of the jury. and im sayin homosexuality is wrong.
and there are also cases in nature where animals have multiple partners, but we dont allow polygamy. heck, praying mantises or black widows or whatever eat there mate after doin it.
I meant its against HUMAN nature. sex is for makin babies. gay sex doesnt make babies. therefore, its against our nature.
besides, if i were christian (which, uh... i am...) my speaking out against homosexuality would be because i think it is a sin, and i really dont want the risk of these people going to hell. Not saying gays automatically go to hell, i just think it increases the probability.
You can judge without condeming. There are prejudice people all over who have no power to condem. And you condem people in your heart.
According to your argument infertile people can't have sex because it is to make babies. If people are using condems they shouldn't have sex because sex is to make babies. That is a poor argument. Sex is about love and intimacy. Sharing something beautiful with your partner.
And who cares if people are going to hell? Why do Christians want to convert everyone? It is so ignorant and wrong. It causes more people to be against Christians than those who change their minds and follow it.
*sigh* You're just close minded and ignorant when it comes to gay people.
"I am a Stephens Woman."
okay somewhere in that blabble you said something bou tsex with condoms. im against that too. in fact, any form of contraception.
and why should i care if people go to hell? uh, hell really really sucks. and its forever.
im not tryin to convert people so my church can have the most numbers, or the most money, or whatever.
HELL SUCKS!
and yes i am close minded against gays. dont say it like its a bad thing! Im sure yo uare close minded about cannibalism or suicide, or cheating on a spouse. surely something you see as wrong no matter what. infanticide? animal sacrifice?
I GOT IT! polygamy! it doesnt hurt anybody else, and its personal, just like homosexuality. Is polygamy wrong to you? what about bestiality? underage sex? partial birth abortion?
*rolls eyes* You clearly are unable to have an educated debate. Or see something from a different perspective. We could go round and round on this all day, however there are other things that I must do that are more important. Like cleaning my dorm.
"I am a Stephens Woman."
You are against all forms of contraception....
when you're married, are you going to have sex freely and openly without protection all the time? If you are, you're going to have more kids than you know what to do with.
If not kids, then miscarriages and all kinds of problems
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http://progressiveu.org/003838-the-girl-who-cried-rape-or-in-this-case-d...
yeah. pretty much.
i mean, if God thinks I should have another kid, i will.
if He doesnt, then it doesnt matter how much sex i have, it wont happen!
besides, im catholic.
12 kids is nothin!!!!
You're right. Overpopulation isn't a problem at all. (Note the sarcasm).
God gave us a thing called free will. And I'm pretty sure He wants us to be good decision makers. :X
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http://progressiveu.org/003838-the-girl-who-cried-rape-or-in-this-case-d...
Is there even a Hell anyway? And why would God make Gays different than Straights if they were meant to be the same?
One thing I'm worried about, is science claiming to come up with a "cure" for gayness. I'm straight, but one of my close friends is gay. If they cured her, I wouldn't have anything to learn from her, she'd just be a mannequin...an example of what society wants, and not herself.
If God sends Gays to Hell just for being Gay, I'd leave Heaven and go to Hell. It can't be much worse if there's an unjust God.
you can definitely encourage more homosexuality. Just like you can encourage more straight. People tend to go with the norm. If the norm was to be gay...the majority would be gay. You're not born anything. You develop your sense of like and dislike with just like you develop preferences for anything else.
"Im born gay" is an excuse. I'm not against gay people, I actually tend to side with them, but I think that approach is the lamest thing ever. You're not born gay...you're not born straight, you're just born. And wherever life takes you is where it takes you.
Its not a coincidence that all of a sudden more gays are coming out after the media has decided that it was okay. Just like its not a coincidence that more teens are getting pregnant as the media advertises more sex. Books, television, newspaper...everything around us influences the type of people we become.
You obviously don't know what it is like to be a homosexual or bisexual. Before I knew that people could like the same sex I was flirting with girls as well as boys. I have ALWAYS been this way. Though I kept the liking girls part quiet, because people only asked me about what boys I liked.
It's not an excuse and it's not lame. They think they have even found a gene for it.
~~~~~~~
"I am a Stephens Woman."
http://progressiveu.org/blog/ashestree
ur right, i dont know how it feels to be gay. But i do know how it feels to have a sexual preference. And even in adolecence, the majority of children perfer their own sex. But as they grow older (and experience and view things) they develop feelings for either sex.
"They think they have found a gene for it"...but thinking isnt really enough. When it is confirmed, i will come back to you with a personal apology. But as of now...there is no gene for gay...just as there is no gene for straight.
Teen pregnancy has gone down since the early 90s. I'm pretty sure our society has become less prude since then as well. Thus your analogy doesn't hold up.
How about this analogy. There are more people being diagnosed with diabetes now. Is that because there are more people with diabetes? Certainly. But it's also probably because we're learning better methods to find it, and thus we're finding more people with the disease as well. So more gays are coming out. Does that mean that there are more gays? Probably (our population has grown... it stands to reason that the number of gays has grown with it). But it also probably means that they were already gay, and were just pushed into the closet in order to fit in. Now that we're more accepting, they feel freer to be themselves.
~C
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Okay...my analogy has been corrected. However, a reason that teen pregnancy has gone down is also on account to awareness to different types of birth control.
"At most recent sex, 83% of teen females and 91% of teen males used contraceptives. These proportions represent a marked improvement since 1995, when only 71% of teen females and 82% of teen males had used a contraceptive method at last sex."
http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_ATSRH.html
Also check out recent statistics:
"After decreasing steadily and significantly for more than a decade, the percentage of teenagers having intercourse began to plateau in 2001 and has failed to budge since then, despite the intensified focus in recent years on encouraging sexual abstinence, according to new analysis of data from a large federal survey"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/21/AR200707...
We are all entitled to our own opinion...its not proven that people are born gay, and it isnt proven that they are not. All I do is look at the activity of our society. Whether we like it or not, media has a huge effect on how we think and act. You can see it every where. From obesity and anorexia to violence and tolerance. The media provides an image on which we all feed off of. I don't think that gays should have to be born gay to have equal treatment anyway.
Yesterday, I saw an Indian Prince on Oprah. He said he lived most of his life not knowing whether he was the only homosexual in the whole world. His mother, the Queen, has disowned him from the family.
My family is great, but I felt a lot like him as far as being alone in the world when I was a little kid in a small town. I knew I was gay but I didn`t know there was a word for it or that I wasn`t the only one in the world with this trait.
As a teenager, when I was asked in a survey, I said I was straight, even though I knew it was a lie, because I felt it was dangerous to tell the truth in such a homophobic area. Now I tell the truth on those surveys, because I feel safer in a world where Ellen and Lance Bass and even thousands of men and women in my own neighborhood don`t lie about it.
I say that I must have been born gay not because of some kind of strategy or whatever you think it is, but because my life experience indicates that that is my truth.
You lied in a survey? Aren't those pretty much anonymous? Thats a little silly, don't u think? Honestly, it is very hard for me to believe that you truly thought you were gay if in an anonymous survey, you answered otherwise.
``You lied in a survey? Aren't those pretty much anonymous? Thats a little silly, don't u think?``
No, it doesn`t seem silly at all when you`ve grown up in a town as homophobic as mine was. Actually, I remember several surveys. One was by students doing research, one was asking all kinds of questions to determine how safe students felt from sexual harassment.
Yes, those surveys were guaranteed anonymous, but I don`t think you understand the amount of pressure on gay kids in conservative areas of society.
All I could think of when I was filling out the one survey was, ``What if someone behind me sees which box I check...What if the one collecting the survey notices what color of ink I was using and knows it was me...
The sexual harassment survey was even more anonymous, because we placed it into a sealed envelope and slipped it under a door. I delayed filling it out because I was struggling over whether I should lie or tell the truth. I was concerned I would not feel safe if anyone knew I was gay. After a few days of delay, I got a note saying that my survey wasn`t returned yet, since I had not checked my name off on the list at that door. So what went through my mind was, first of all, maybe I`m the only one that goes under the door today, so they`ll know that survey is mine. And second of all, with all the questions that were asked about what kind of classes I`m taking, what is my ethnicity, what is my sex and age, etc., that it would not be hard for someone to guess who I was. So I checked ``heterosexual`` even though it was a big fat lie.
I`ve always believed strongly in honesty and I hated to lie on the survey, but I had seen so much extreme anti gay sentiment in high school and I had been keeping this secret ever since kindergarten. It was like a long term deal I had with myself that to stay safe, no one could know my secret.
The ironic thing is that I now realize that there were lots of others who were gay and bisexual too who answered the same survey. I didn`t know that until a couple of years later when I got out into the gay community and I started to realize that others who`d been in school with me all along were dealing with the same things I was.
Wow, thats really sad. And Im sorry that you have to feel ashamed of what you are. But that makes me question the validity of any survey. Now you have to wonder what statistics really prove if people are afraid to to answer honestly.
...but you do not appear to be very well informed.
> "Im born gay" is an excuse. I'm not
> against gay people, I actually tend
> to side with them, but I think that
> approach is the lamest thing ever.
> You're not born gay...you're not born
> straight, you're just born. And wherever
> life takes you is where it takes you.
The extant scientific researd simply does not support your hypothesis.
What most doctors say about homosexuality: A collection of policy statements by the major professional associations
percivale
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"Vi Veri Vniversum Vivus Vici." ~ V.
I read ur blog... and checked out your first website.
What I found was that, Im not too badly informed. Actually, it pretty much support my hypothesis.
"No, human beings can not choose to be either gay or straight. Sexual orientation emerges for most people in early adolescence without any prior sexual experience"
Found at http://www.apa.org/topics/orientation.html.
Notice that i never said it was a choice, but something that must be developed on this same site, it is quoted:
"In most people, sexual orientation is shaped at an early age".
So born gay? No, you are shaped a certain way.
No one can chose what experiences they have and what they are exposed to earlier in life. Once it happens it happens, and those things shape who we become.
I stand by my theory. Like I said, I'm not discrediting gay people, I just think it is ignorant of us to say that the media doesn't play any type of role, because everything around us plays a role on the type of people we are, whether we like it or not.
Jawoniyi,
It seems to me that you are reading something into your quote that it does not necessarily say. When they say orientation is ``shaped`` early or ``emerges,`` early, that does not imply that it is not shaped as a result of some gene or influence in the womb. They are more implying what it is ``not`` than they are claiming what it ``is.`` And to say that orientation ``emerges`` can simply mean that an awareness of it becomes clearer and clearer as one matures. I knew I was attracted to males and wanted to marry a man in kindergarten. I noticed at age 7 when I saw beautiful women kissing handsome men in movies that I thought SHE was lucky. I noticed at age 9 that seeing a woman`s breasts in a bikini did nothing for me but seeing a man`s pecs at the beach drew my eyes in. I noticed when I kissed a beautiful girl in high school, that I didn`t feel a thing, but later when I kissed a guy, I felt fireworks.
So you see, I was gay all along, even in kindergarten, but you could also say that the signs of my sexual orientation emerged little by little as I observed them one by one.
Sorry it took so long to respond, i haven't been on here in a while. But anyway,
I don't think I misinterpreted it. I read it word for word. In my eyes, you are interpreting it the wrong way. Not me. When you were seven, I'm sure you had already developed your sexual orientation (Early adolescence). The funny thing is that for everyone, the beginning of life is a time that they cannot remember or at least not in huge detail. There is a certain age where you can remember how you felt at a certain time and other things like that. You have no idea what could've happened during the time that you don't quite remember that might make you feel a certain way towards people or things.
Thats why people say "Ive been gay for as long as I could remember." You cant say you know you were born gay because you have no idea what you were feeling when you were born.
I honestly don't think that what I took from the article is invalid because that is exactly what it said, word for word. It seems as if you provided an interpretation to benefit your case.
What you were arguing before sounded like you were saying that being gay isn't genetic. I was born bald with slightly dark fuzz, then I had blonde hair and now it's brown (well, actually I dye it, but it would be brown). So to say I was born with brown hair isn't true, but to say that it is in my genetics is true. I believe that gay people are gay because of their genetic make-up.
~~~~~~~
"I am a Stephens Woman."
http://progressiveu.org/blog/ashestree
Youre right. I dont think being gay is genetic. So your argument doesnt help me, because I dont believe that being gay can be compared to your hair color if I dont believe that being gay is genetic. Being gay is a preference (male vs female) we can agree that right? Well think about another preference. Me? I dont like olives. The funny thing is, that my parents tell me as a kid, I used to eat them all the time. I had no problem with them. But as I grew older I developed certain preferences. One of them was to stay away from olives. The other was that i like men.
There is really no way for me to get you to understand. Honestly, you have to be gay in order to understand this, or at least more open minded. If it was as easy as you say than why would we chose such a ridiculed preference? I can learn to love food. You can't learn to love a certain sex. As a bisexual I do like both, but I find women much more attractive and I often find men gross. I am very picky on both. My lesbian friends tell me that the thought of being with a man seems unnatural.
~~~~~~~
"I am a Stephens Woman."
http://progressiveu.org/blog/ashestree
I don't think you read my responses in depth. I said earlier that I don't believe that being gay is a choice. Because you don't choose the experiences that make you the person that you are.
But I do think that I am more open minded than most people. I have no problems with gays. My best friend in middle school let me know she was bisexual and I had to keep that a secret from everyone else. Yet, I still accepted it, she was still the same Melanie that I always knew. She was just attracted to both sexes.
But, if I'm not being open minded then you aren't either. I have talked to plenty of gay people who say that my theory on people developing sexual preference at an early age is very valid.
One thing we can agree though, is that I don't know you felt at early adolescence, and you don't either, because you don't remember. Neither of our theories are proven. So we can agree to disagree.
But I don't like that you talk about being gay like its some unique feature that you have. I don't have to be gay to understand that gays are born gay if there is no real proof. Especially if other gays are strong enough to admit that they don't know if they were born gay. They don't know what they felt when they were born and they can admit to that. A great deal of gay men didn't have a dominant male in their life. Thats why they say an absent father increases the possibility.
As a side note: I have tried to like olives because my mom puts them in everything. I cant do it. I will eat them, but I really do not like them. I dont think that I can force myself to like a food, though Ive tried. Tolerate it? Yes, but like it no.
Here are some websites of information that I have received about homosexuality and development that support my theory.
http://www.avert.org/hsexu2.htm
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/scotts/ftp/bulgarians/billings-beckwit...
"I have talked to plenty of gay people who say that my theory on people developing sexual preference at an early age is very valid."
I think it sounds valid in a theoretical sense, but it doesn't seem to match up with my personal experience.
"One thing we can agree though, is that I don't know you felt at early adolescence, and you don't either, because you don't remember. "
I can't speak for anyone else, but I know that I do remember early adolescence very clearly. Different people have very different experience with childhood recollection. I've met people who couldn't remember anything before age 14 just 4 years later. But I remember being 3 years old perfectly fine, and I remember distinctly my experiences one by one at age 3 and age 4 and age 5 etc., noticing things that made me different and that nobody else in the world except me seemed to feel the way I did. My memories about being five and knowing I was gay are very clear, but I remember a lot. My family always asks me if they want to recall anything from the past because they say I have a memory like an elephant. I even remember the licence plate number on the car my dad sold when I was in kindergarten and the name of every neighbor that my whole family has forgotten.
" A great deal of gay men didn't have a dominant male in their life. Thats why they say an absent father increases the possibility. "
Actually, I have seen that claim made, but only by homophobic religious groups that say a lot of things about gays using sources that haven't passed scientific peer review. The mainstream organizations in the social sciences say the opposite -- that there is no such tendency.
Really, a lot of heterosexuals don't have a good Dad in their life, either. My dad is the most amazing guy.
But to the extent that it may be true that some gay men have distance between themselves and a parent, homophobia has to be considered.
For example, my parents love my partner. But his mom does not accept him because he's gay and she also doesn't accept me because I'm white. I'm not white BECAUSE she's negative and distant and he's not gay because she's negative and distant. She's just a prejudiced person, and always says she doesn't want a gay son, and to never trust a white person.
I have plenty of gay friends whose parents are NOT prejudiced, and there is no extra problem with their parents at all.
"As a side note: I have tried to like olives because my mom puts them in everything. I cant do it. I will eat them, but I really do not like them."
I think the reasons for not liking a certain food are very different and much more malleable, though there does seem to be a genetic component that plays a part. Some people's taste buds are geared to taste a very bitter quality in broccoli. A certain percentage of people produce an enzyme when they eat asparagus that makes their urine have a very strange odor. Another segment of people witha certain gene are able to smell that smell and others can't smell it because they don't have the gene.
And, probably more pertinent to sexual orientation, I read recently that pheremones from a man's sweat have a very nice vanilla-spice type smell to people with a certain gene but smells like stale urine to other people with a different gene.
Actually the information about a great number of male homosexuals having a distant relationship with their father is information from gay people. They survey male homosexuals and then they respond. Its not like people just make it up. So if anything is wrong with the statistics then its gay people who are messing it up.
I really cant believe that you remember exactly how you felt at every moment when you were three. And I'm sure it benefits your argument to say that you do. But it is highly hard for you me to believe. It is impossible to remember every single experience that you had because every moment in life is an experience. im sure you cant even remember every single experience you had today. I remember being spanked when I was three. I remember going to my sister's birthday party. And I remember one day in day care when I wet my pants. I understand that not all people are the same, but there is a limit to memory. No matter who you are.
As far as my preference for food: It was developed. At an early age, I loved them. Now I hate them. Taste buds don't change only perception of food does. When you reach a certain age, some of them die...but they remain unchanged. Unless you have some sort of medical treatment (which I didnt have) but then they change temporarily, but end up the same way.
``Actually the information about a great number of male homosexuals having a distant relationship with their father is information from gay people. They survey male homosexuals......``
Hold on. You say, ``THEY`` do this. You need to ask yourself who is ``they.`` Are ``they`` an anti gay religious group. As I said, the mainstream scientific organizations such as the American psychological Association have NOT come to this conclusion.
Those anti gay groups that are asking the question also do a very bad job of getting random samples. If you survey, for example, gay boys who grow up in an anti gay Pentecostal church in Cowpoke Corners, Mississippi, you are going to get a very large number responding that they feel very bad about who they are, that they are sad in life, that their dad has always been distant, that their family life is strained, that they can never have a loving relationship, etc.
But if you ask the same question to boys who grow up going to a United Church of Christ in Seattle or to the Glide Memorial Church in San Francisco, then you would surely find a lot of respondents who would say that their family is accepting, their church life is good, their dad has a positive relationship with them, etc.
By the way, I used the example of Pentecostal church because I know lots of gay guys who grew up in it who were sad and even suicidal as kids because their parents and community were always making homophobic comments toward them. I used the example of the United Church of Christ because it supports marriage equality and welcomes gay members as equals, and I used the example of Glide Memorial Church because I went there once and it was wonderful. It was actually the church depicted in the Will Smith movie The pursuit of Happyness, and the preacher in the movie was the real life guy I saw at the church who, in real life, helped the character Will Smith plays.
In that church I saw every race and straight and gay members side by side and the minister made it very clear that every race and sexual orientation was an equal in that church.
Sometimes I hear some people say that every homosexual they`ve ever met was sad and unloved, etc., etc., but the ones who say that always seem to be in those anti gay circles, so of course that`s who they meet.
I don`t hang out with many prejudiced types, and my gay friends tend to have healthy and happy lives.
``I really cant believe that you remember exactly how you felt at every moment when you were three. And I'm sure it benefits your argument to say that you do.``
I don`t claim to remember absolutely every detail, like what I ate as a snack on November 12th of that year. But I do have clear memories and I was very self aware as a child, and extra sensitive about watching reactions others had to sexuality issues because I knew I was different from everyone else I knew.
`` I remember being spanked when I was three.... And I remember one day in day care when I wet my pants....``
Oh, so that`s why you`re heterosexual!..... No, I`m just saying that tongue in cheek, of course, but it`s to show you how the anti gay groups make their conclusions. If your parents are divorced, they`ll say that`s why you`re gay. If your dad went to work out of town a lot, then that`s why you`re gay. If your mom was too strict about bedtime, then that`s why you`re gay. If you wet your pants once in kindergarten, then that`s why you`re gay. Basically when you add all the reasons they try to use for gayness, they can apply to nearly 1OO% of straight Americans in some way or another.
That`s one reason their claims never pass scientific peer review.
``As far as my preference for food: It was developed. At an early age, I loved them. Now I hate them. Taste buds don't change only perception of food does. ``
Actually, I`ve read that the way food tastes does change as we get older and is not the same between individuals. For example, a lot of females taste broccoli differently than most males and children`s taste buds detect strong bitter flavors in it that most adults can`t detect.
That`s one area where I`m not sure how much my tastes changed because of physiology and how much because of my perceptions. I remember being in tears in Mexico as a five year old, because the taste of enchilladas made me feel sick, and now enchilladas are my favorite.
But my romantic and sexual attractions have always been for other men, and no matter where I was or what was around me or what I wanted, that has never changed the tiniest bit.
I dont like the skinny responses so my most recent will be posted at the bottom.
Being picky is genetic, you know. And we haven't found specific genes for things like hair and eye color (but we know they're genetic). Just thought I'd throw that out there.
~C
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...the material I linked for you. And, you seem to be "quote mining" rather heavily in your response.
For example, you note that the APA says that "in most people, sexual orientation is shaped at an early age," but you completely ignore the sentences just before and after this out of context quotation that both clearly point to the biological aspects of homosexuality. Here is the full quote, in context...
There are numerous theories about the origins of a person's sexual orientation; most scientists today agree that sexual orientation is most likely the result of a complex interaction of environmental, cognitive and biological factors. In most people, sexual orientation is shaped at an early age. There is also considerable recent evidence to suggest that biology, including genetic or inborn hormonal factors, play a significant role in a person's sexuality. In summary, it is important to recognize that there are probably many reasons for a person's sexual orientation and the reasons may be different for different people.
If you wish to stand behind your theory, that's fine. But please don't make the mistake of thinking that your theory is well founded in light of the extant scientific research into the nature of human sexual orientation.
percivale
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"Vi Veri Vniversum Vivus Vici." ~ V.
Okay, whether or not I used the whole quote, the sentence still supported my hypothesis. It says "In most people sexual orientation IS shaped at an early age." It doesnt say that it might be, it says that it IS. This statement doesnt talk about how there is evidence to "suggest" it says it is. Implying fact. Yes, you cant take the recent studies into consideration, but, plain and simple your article said that sexual orientation is shaped at an early age.
The reason that I quoted it the way i did wasn't so that i could leave out information, it was so that I didn't have to write the whole damn paragraph. Its not that I misread, i just didn't want to include the entire quote and was trying to show how your article supported my arguement. And despite the sentences before and after the one that I used...it did support my theory. By saying as a FACT that sexual orientation is shaped at an early age.
...and so I apologize for the long delay before my response. The fact is that you are "quote mining." Quote mining is when someone takes a source, and quotes it in such a way as to alter its original meaning, usually though the selective elimination of an important context, or just outright misquotation.
In this case, you said that "being born gay" was an excuse, implying that people do in fact choose to be gay. And yet, nothing in the material you quoted supports that erroneous assumption. The quote does say that sexual orientation is "shaped" at an early age, but it doesn't say that this shaping involves any element of choice. And, the very next sentence clarifies by pointing to the evidence that this early shaping involves a number of biological factors (obviously not choices), including "inborn" ones.
You are simply denying the facts, and intentionally misreading a source to protect your willfully uninformed position.
Tsk, tsk...
Blackout
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Yes, I've changed my username from "percivale" to "Blackout." Go here if you want to know why.
Damn it. You beat me to it. I was about to blog the same thing. Oh well. Actually, I didn't even know he was gay. In the book, he showed no sign that he is a homosexual although I realized he had a dark past. Perhaps her idea of gayness is lacking. I wonder why she didn't come out with this before until the very end of her series. This reminds me of how she fooled everyone by saying one of the three main characters died. Everyone hurried with the last book to see who's going to die. At the end, no one died. They even got married!! Pshhh
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I wasn't surprised. He always wore purple and was a little flamboyant. She said she would have written it if she thought it would make people happy, but it really didn't do anything with the plot.
"I am a Stephens Woman."
The most badass wizard this side of the century is gay. ^_^ Wish she made it a plot in the book. I think it would have gone over better...then again with people spoiling things...yeah...still it feels like a sort of cop out that it wasn't put in the book. I would have loved to see readers reactions to it if it had been xD.
Phoenixes are superb. They are also fictional beings..but that isn't the point!
It's awesome. And even more wonderful is that she got cheers and applause for announcing it.
I swear, when I read this this morning, I thought the newspaper was lying. It just seemed like such a random thing to put up. Didn't help that it was in a religion news section.
Of course, I didn't remember about the reading last night, since it wasn't exactly something that was open to the public like her last reading was.
It adds some dimension to the character, honestly, but I don't think it's a bad thing. Might've been better if it had been integrated somehow into the text, to show that acceptance, but that probably would've crossed the line for to many people *shrugs*
~C
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Can you imagine how many people are going to be trying to ban Harry Potter now? People already dislike it because it's about wizards and now a main character is gay!
"I am a Stephens Woman."
I'm perfectly happy with Dumbledore being gay. I just don't see why it was necessary to announce when it was not a plot point. I'm curious about other character's sexualities now too. Mostly Sirius...I've read too much slash fiction. ;-)
Also, Dumbledore being in love with Grindelwald seems more like a cop-out to me. I always thought that since sexuality was not brought up in her books, that in the wizarding world, sexuality is a non-issue. People are accepted for who they are (or at least people who don't support Voldemort accept others) without question or comment. That's how I always saw it.
A fan asked if Dumbledore had ever been in love. I don't think we'd know if someone didn't ask.
"I am a Stephens Woman."
``I always thought that since sexuality was not brought up in her books, that in the wizarding world, sexuality is a non-issue. People are accepted for who they are...``
I don`t know what you mean by ``a non issue.`` Do you mean that you imagined that their world is asexual and that no one ever has a crush on anyone in their world... If you mean just that they are not obsessed with it, then it seems consistent that it wasn`t made an issue. Maybe in the wizarding world, the characters are unconcerned about Dumbledore`s love life history because it is something they wouldn`t think of judging somone for.
I wasnt surprised. It arose the wuestion when in the 7th book, Rowling wrote "the boys took to each other at once" and Dumbledore was really sad when he killed Grindewald. They were practically inseperable...
who is currently alot more enamored with HP, I got over my craze and still haven't finished the last book, she was telling me she didn't need to know he was gay, it changed her whole mind set and made her a little disgusted..SO...it's actually a serious matter that people consider it such an important and overwhelming fact that they can't even accept a fictional characeter being gay
I told her that I don't really give a damn, doesn't change the fact that I thought he was one of the most quirky and cool characters and I thought that his death made a complete sense in the story...and not because he was gay...I really think that Rowling did have good intentions except now parents are gonna think even more before letting kids read it, (there were some who thought the books were blasphemy and they aren;t allowed in certain private school libraries)
"I leave my one and only grain of spiritual sand
to universal scales of humanity, all humanity...
forever is finding a solution to a solution." -Forever Begins, Common
http://www.progressiveu.org/231615-this-is-a-muslim-girls-plight
I do think more people are going to try to ban Harry Potter now, which is a darn shame. The ONLY reason why we even know that Dumbledore is gay, is because some kid asked if he had ever been in love. Otherwise no one would know. Frankly I think that kids should be allowed to read the book because she didn't make that a focus point in the book.
People should not be judged on their sexuality. End of story.
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"I am a Stephens Woman."
http://progressiveu.org/blog/ashestree
``(my sister} was telling me she didn't need to know he was gay, it changed her whole mind set and made her a little disgusted...``
Wow. Your sister is so judgmental that knowing that someone gay simply exists and has feelings is enough to ``disgust`` her.... I hope you or someone else will challenge her to think about why she thinks that way.
Looks like a heated debate is going on; hopeyou dont mind if i cut in.
I think it is a smart idea to have a gay fictional character .. though i think it is ironic that he dies-- none the less, he shows up at all. and that in itself is controversial enough to some readers who may be adult and homophobic.. none the less...
lets not get rowdy people it IS a childrens book (though i wouldnt be surprised if the final movie is rated R)
In the next movie they were going to have a scene that woul show Dumbledore being in love with a woman. JK had to send a note to the director informing him that it would never happen.
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"I am a Stephens Woman."
http://progressiveu.org/blog/ashestree
what a sec. I didn't pic that up when i read that. I'm going to have to reread it and pay attention to that.
Even I had this feeling that Dumbledore had a broken heart or something, because he never seemed truly happy-- I mean we know he is not fearful of Voldemort so he should have tried to find happyness with someone
------- it does kind of fit in that he was in love with someone such as Grindelwald and it never came to a conclusion because of the struggle between him fighting for good and Grindelwald being his opponent. Ah, I don't really care if he was gay, doesn't change anything for me
BUt she really was very discreet, leaving such few clues as to a character's love life in the past
"I leave my one and only grain of spiritual sand
to universal scales of humanity, all humanity...
forever is finding a solution to a solution." -Forever Begins, Common
http://www.progressiveu.org/231615-this-is-a-muslim-girls-plight
you have great taste in music.
...just thought id let u know. lol
Wow we are talking about a fictional charcter's homosexuality, wow thats stimulating!!! I'm sorry to tell you, I think she just made that up after she got done writing the books, just to draw more attention to the book. Its not like he outted himself in the books. You also have to realize even if he was gay, there wasn't another gay character in the entire series, so he is going to be in the closet for a really long time. Also that means she represented Gays with one character, and straight people with hundreds of characters. :) I mean come on, dumbledore never acted gay in the movies, or even in the book. I just choose to ignore this idea of him being gay, because I believe its baloney.
I totally agree. The fact that he is gay doesnt change the books, it just adds to sales through curiosity...now everyone is going to be looking for the clues to see how he is gay.
You're right about how everyone will be looking for clues to see how he is gay. But at this point, I think that she has written so much, that she could have said something- anything- and there would be clues in the books to proove it.
I doubt she made it up. I've been writing a novel for five years an she's been working on Harry Potter for over a decade. When you write with characters for a long amount of time they almost become real. You have an idea of exactly how they are. You know things about them that you woul never write about, but use to shape them an make them round.
And how do you act gay? Not everyone is a stereotype, especially Dumbledore.
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"I am a Stephens Woman."
http://progressiveu.org/blog/ashestree
That's very true. It's hard for a writer to decide what to include and what to leave out, but some things just aren't necessary to the plot, so they're not included.
And I would feel sorry for anyone who tried to stereotype me.
I don't need drugs - I have genetics.
> I think she just made that up after she got
> done writing the books, just to draw more
> attention to the book.
Mrs. Rowlings has been saying in interviews for years that there were gay characters in her books. She was shrewdly quiet about exactly who they might be, however, though the general consensus in the fan community (before book 6, anyway) was that Remus Lupin and Sirius Black were the leading candidates.
percivale
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"Vi Veri Vniversum Vivus Vici." ~ V.