Apparently the US, mainly the CIA, practices torture.
Was I the only one who didn't know we still practiced these techniques? I'm more naive than I thought!
"After the Sept. 11 attacks, President Bush gave the CIA authority to conduct the [torture] operations." [2]
"Democrats on Capitol Hill demanded to see the classified memorandums ... that gave the Central Intelligence Agency expansive approval in 2005 for harsh interrogation techniques." [1]
This really bothers me ... Am I the only one? Don't we condemn other countries who practice torture ... it wouldn't surprise me, our country tends to be hypocritical. I asked my history professor & he replied "Yes, but at least we don't assassinate other world leaders anymore." Whaaaat? [Please excuse my spelling, I felt the emphasis was necessary] This practice wasn't done away with until Ford was president. Did you know the US tried to assassinate Castro 16 times? Not only do we assassinate people, but we suck, for lack of a better word, at it! 16 failed attempts. Wow.
Is this something we need to get rid of or is this one of those "don't ask, don't tell" situations.
I honestly don't know how I feel about this. I'm hurt because I didn't know what was going on but I'm not sure if I'm completely against it. However, I think they should know all of their facts before using their techniques on foreigners [read 2]
1. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9504EFDE1739F936A35753C1A9619C8B63
2. http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Torture-Rendition.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
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we as citizens of the US are NEVER going to know what all goes on. and frankly, I dont WANT to know! i mean, if they get the job done, i thinks its kinda okay. Its not like by us NOT torturing, the other countries are gonna follow suit.
personally I think we go do lots of stuff that doesnt seem right, yet it is the only way to keep us safe. One reason the government was so shocked at 9/11 was cuz they had successfully STOPPED so many attacks before it! Torturing terrorists allows us to prevent deaths and torture to our own citizens. Given the choice between another country dying or mine, i would want the other, and i dont think anybody will disagree with that.
Please note the INSERTION to make the point.
You could insert anything and be just as correct. You second point about assination is a little misguided as well. We tried to take out Sadam repeatedly, every time we thought we knew where he was. Osama has been the target of similar bombings of 'cave complexes' when ever we thought he might be present.
Yes it is horrible the things that have been done to shelter you from people that take non-combatant hostages and chop their heads off and publish the videos. You should be thankful people are willing to fight your battles for you so your hands can stay so clean.
Which side are you on?
A fact is always better than an ideal
be nice!
If i had just learned that for the first time i would be kinda shocked too....
but you shouldnt lash out at her! Primarily cuz she is in the greatest state in the world, and from her relatively small picture it looks like she is fairly attractive!!!
so play nice!!!
Are you serious?
You're saying he shouldn't be rude because she looks fairly attractive?
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The 30 Day Reality Trial--join up!
Are people not reading your blogs?
I have one girl in my history class (who people think is attractive but I consider her to be a bimbo) her phone started playing a random song/tune in the middle of our midterm---
I REALLY WANTED TO STRANGLE HER but I held back my anger and restrained myself from cursing out...I can not believe our professor did not say anything to her...well if it happens again, she's getting a REALITY CHECK from me
"I leave my one and only grain of spiritual sand
to universal scales of humanity, all humanity...
forever is finding a solution to a solution." -Forever Begins, Common
http://www.progressiveu.org/231615-this-is-a-muslim-girls-plight
I don't like pretty girls being lied to.
Thank you for correcting my second point - I'm new to this subject! I am very thankful for the other people who are willing to fight for me; especially my family members fighting in Iraq. I'm not sure if I want to stay blissfully oblivious ... but life is much easier that way.
An effect torture is likely to have is once it has been established as a way to treat an enemy, unlike the humane way an enemy used to be able to expect to be treated upon capture which the US used to have a reputation for, is that the enemy will be a lot more likely to fight to the death. In every other war the US has engaged in the US has been greatly aided by this reputation.
Now contrary to reason in a more idealogical "war" than any previous war, this reputation has been disposed of onto the scrap heap of history.
I think that some people sit in genuine awe of their own detachment from the reality of things like war and torture, then actively seek out someone who dissents so they can share in the position of authority by displacing that person from whatever virtues they hold on to.
Restoring Faith In Humanity One Acquaintance At A Time
The battle for the hearts and minds in this situation has been mishandled by the US for most of this century, but Bush has done little to help. Repeatedly the US has supported people including Saddam Hussein, the Israelis, and the Shaw of Iran that ACTUALLY used REAL torture.
"detachment from the reality of things like war and torture"
Is exactly what a person requires to think minor irritants and discomforts such as those at Gitmo are torture.
A fact is always better than an ideal
No, that would be empathy, which in this case, could be considered the opposite of detachment. Exactly what is happening at Gitmo neither you or I really know. If you think it is okay to create physical duress to obtain information (of which none has been .forthcoming) on the assumption of guilt let alone due process, on innocent people no less, then you my friend embrace totalitarianism.
Restoring Faith In Humanity One Acquaintance At A Time
"of which none has been .forthcoming"
Perhaps none that is declassified. By the nature of this info it cannot be released.
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"Exactly what is happening at Gitmo neither you or I really know."
The basis for this is reports by independant observers. They go into great detail. The officers that run the prison are subject to US Law, and the Congress has passed a very specific list of what is permitted. We are talking about authorised actions here, some renegade torturer going beyond the guidelines has neither been proven or alledged. If you don't know what is happening how do you find it to be wrong?
A fact is always better than an ideal
those actions you are talking about that have been "authorised" are because this administration redefined and made up their own laws and rules regarding torture and prison cells
a very specific list is BULL-you saw what happened at Abu Ghraib and other prisons and yet you can say this...
Bush/his admininstration gave them(people who work in prsion cells and do the bidding) free range to do anything and everything
"I leave my one and only grain of spiritual sand
to universal scales of humanity, all humanity...
forever is finding a solution to a solution." -Forever Begins, Common
http://www.progressiveu.org/231615-this-is-a-muslim-girls-plight
I agree that accusations can exist, but unless you can back it up........
"Abu Ghraib"
You are calling THAT torture?
Are you aware how that came out?
Are you aware of how Iraqi citizens were treated there a few months BEFORE the Americans took over?
Your imagination of what happened seems to favor the terrorist side of this war. I was against the invasion of Iraq, but not against the American side of the conflict once it began. I hope you actually check the facts. Here is my take on this whole picture:
http://www.progressiveu.org/132710-the-good-side-of-the-war
A fact is always better than an ideal
the other people who are against torture (physical one and extreme painful torture)
DO NOT SAY THAT MY STANCE SUPPORTS THE TERRORISTS OR OTHER BULL
I AM AGAINST ALL VIOLENCE AND EXTREMISM THAT IS UNJUSITIFIED AND UNCALLED FOR AGAINST INNOCENT PEOPLE
stop putting US on the same level as Saddam- he tortured those innocent people, he was a cruel ass and waste of space, BUT does that mean we should keep people we have not even convicted of any crimes in prisons and just arrest any one we suspect and torture them so that they make up stories tgo meet our demands?
"I leave my one and only grain of spiritual sand
to universal scales of humanity, all humanity...
forever is finding a solution to a solution." -Forever Begins, Common
http://www.progressiveu.org/231615-this-is-a-muslim-girls-plight
Exactly! It's not necessarily being against a country or its people, it's focusing on the fact that we're using violence to get what we want; especially when there are tons of people being tortured into making false confessions. What does this help?
1) It is a streatch to call these methods 'torture.'
2) The goal is not to get a confession, it is to capture or KILL the terrorists that are still at large.
3) A disdain for violence does NOTHING to STOP violence.
I'm going to drop a challenge on, what is to me, this ignorance. Name ANY participant in any war you choose that has followed BETTER treatment of prisoners than the US in this one. I'll do the research, and link to at least one example that equals or exceeds the acusations leveled against the US at Gitmo, or admit that I can't. Looking for an example will help your perspective.
War is not law enforcement.
A fact is always better than an ideal
You make a very good point! I don't know much but I'd assume the US hasn't been chopping off the heads of prisoners....
and thanks for saying/admitting/mentioning--- "Bush is an Idiot"
it makes me almost consider that you aren't a complete ass for thinking better thoughts of "pretty" girls or something to that extent (referring to the discussion of good looks above) ---
FURTHERMORE what is your classification for "REAL TORTURE" and how do you classify gitmo as a "discomfort"
OH is it only because it is American and it is being used by us and therefore our torture is different from their torture only because we are americans and they are not? Iam just trying to understand how you come up with these things...
"I leave my one and only grain of spiritual sand
to universal scales of humanity, all humanity...
forever is finding a solution to a solution." -Forever Begins, Common
http://www.progressiveu.org/231615-this-is-a-muslim-girls-plight
That I might be an ass. ;-) I'll probably give you reason to reconsider.
Shah, yeah! that's it.
My gender is occasionaly a handicap. If I deny that it won't help me overcome it.
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'what is your classification for "REAL TORTURE" '(?)
I would say physical damage or the threat there of.
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'how do you classify gitmo as a "discomfort" '(?)
We have most of the authorised list of what is allowed.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A29742-2004Jun9.html
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"is it only because it is American and it is being used by us and therefore our torture is different from their torture only because we are americans and they are not?"
I don't mind being accused, I think it is more based on a Democrat/Republican thing in the first place. On one hand the acusation is good in that it is allowed, but that does not make it more real. By the way I am neither. The Democrats in the senate passed these 'authorizations,' and the resolution for war overwhelmingly. I do find it dishonest of them to be taking their current stance. It just shows how they have out manuvered Bush. Gave him enough rope to hang himself.
That didn't really answer your question, but beheadings is getting repetitive.
A fact is always better than an ideal
lets clarify--
Democrats alone did not authorise this, this happend after the 9/11 scare and at that time everyone was pissing in their pants, when most were emotionally stable then they thought about it and talk ed about just how wrong it is to PHYSICALLY torture people and that's when most senators stood up against the torture (even crucial Republicans such as McCain) and wire tapping- (Arlen Specter)
Bush hung himself, he is stubborn and he does not admit defeat and to his own mistakes even when they are blatantly in his face
"I leave my one and only grain of spiritual sand
to universal scales of humanity, all humanity...
forever is finding a solution to a solution." -Forever Begins, Common
http://www.progressiveu.org/231615-this-is-a-muslim-girls-plight
It's disgusting isn't it? and the fact that we are okay with it because we somehow think it is for the greater good but it is just our mind telling us BS but I guess it gives us a safety net
Personally, I will say this on assasinations by the US of foreign leader
We had a military general as leader in Pakistan back in the late 80s and he died in an airplane crash and NOONE admits to what happend BUT everyone from my dad to my friends in pak and current leaders ALL think that it was the US involvement
of course we don't just get this idea out of thin air--- he was a threat to the US (his ideas and lack of doing what the US asked him to do) I don't know if it's true but it's what everyone in Pak thinks and has been taught in school
here is the wikipedia link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Zia-ul-Haq
"I leave my one and only grain of spiritual sand
to universal scales of humanity, all humanity...
forever is finding a solution to a solution." -Forever Begins, Common
http://www.progressiveu.org/231615-this-is-a-muslim-girls-plight
Torture is wrong and immoral. It should never be practiced. If we don't want our soldiers mistreated then we shouldn't torture our prisoners. The United States is hypocritical when they tell other countries not to commit human rights abuses. If we used the same interrogation techniques on leaders in Washington would they still think using them are okay?