I was recently asked what my religion was. Or more accurately, they asked which "cult" I belonged to. Since "Mormonism" has been labeled as a cult since the mobbings a hundred years ago, I felt it appropriate to not only tell what religion I belonged to, but also dispel many myths that people have about our religion.
First off, we are not "Mormons". Our church is called "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints". The term "Mormon" was derived from one of the books that our church uses as doctrine. "The Book of Mormon". Our church history has been one that is common to many religions that suffered the effects of religious hatred. Mobs and domestic violence were common place to the early church members. People were murdered, tarred and feathered, and women raped, all because people felt such hatred for the things that our church believes.
The church is not the church of man, but the Church of God. It is the same church first organized by Christ during his time on the earth. Over time, the church became corrupt. Religious leaders began to change the order that Christ had organized. They murdered the prophets and killed the apostles. In 325 AD, there was heated dispute over many principles of religion. To solve the dispute, all of the major Christian leaders of the time met in Constantinople to discuss the matter. At the end of this meeting of man, they developed a creed, on which, all Christianity would be based. Man decided who God was. Man told God how he came to be, and what his purposes were. Over the course of the next 1500 years, this lack of true authority on the earth continued. This period of time was known as the "Apostasy". Prophesied by prophets generations before, the time in which no true church existed, had begun.
God did not intend on letting this continue though. He had a plan that no human hand could stop. In 1820, a small 14 year old boy named Joseph Smith, was disturbed by the sense of contention and hate that abounded in religions at the time. So many churches proclaimed that they were the "true" church. And yet they differed so blatantly in their beliefs. Confused on the matter, Joseph took the matter to the scriptures. In James, Chapter One verse Five, Joseph read: "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him” Determined to discover the truth, Joseph took the challenge presented by James and early in the morning of spring 1820, Joseph knelt in a secluded woodland to ask God which of all the churches was true. God the father and Christ appeared to Joseph and told him that none of the churches of the time were true, and that he should join none of them.
Joseph was mocked by people everywhere for what he proclaimed, but Joseph did not falter in his story. In 1823, three years after his glorious vision, Joseph was visited once more by visitors from heaven. This time, it was an angel named Moroni. He told Joseph that God had prepared a work for him and that there was a book written on plates of gold by ancient inhabitants of the Americas buried in a nearby hillside. Four years later, Joseph was told by Moroni that God was prepared to have Joseph translate the record. Through the power of God, and over the course of the next three years, Joseph translated the gold plates. The published copy of this record, known as the Book of Mormon, has since been translated into over 78 languages and more than 100 Million copies have been printed.
Although the Book of Mormon is a major part of our religion, it is not the only source of Doctrine used by the Church. The compilation of all the scriptures used are known as the "Standard Works".
The Standard works include:
- The Old Testament
- The New Testament
- The Book of Mormon
- The Pearl of Great Price
- The Doctrine and Covenants
Over the course of the next 14 years, the church would be driven from state to state by mobs. Everywhere they went, the church was the target of persecution and rage. In 1944, Joseph Smith was murdered while being held under false charges at Carthage Jail in Illinois. After Joseph's Martyrdom, Brigham Young became the new Prophet of the church. Young led the church out of the United States into what is now Utah. Even there, they continued to be persecuted as the Gold Rush later began in the west.
There are many myths about the church that have spread like wildfire. I would now like to dispel many of these myths and quell unease about the church.
- We DO believe in Jesus Christ. He is our savior and the most important part of our religion. He is the center and foundation for everything that we believe.
- We do not practice polygamy. It was practiced for a short time during the churches early days. In order for a man to marry more than one woman, he must have approval from both his wife, and a leader of the church. This practice was immediately disposed of after the United States made it illegal. Any modern day people who practice polygamy are not members of our church. Any member who practices polygamy is excommunicated.
- We don't have horns... Does that even make any sense to you?
- We do not worship Joseph Smith. He was a prophet. Not a god. We worship only God the Father and do not worship any other Gods.
- We are not a cult. (Unless worshipping God makes us one.)
I hope that by informing those here more about our religion that people will be better able to understand us and our beliefs. If you have any questions, feel free to comment below or visit the official church website at: LDS.org
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Excellent post, and very interesting. You ought to be a story writer.
This is the best blog I have seen from someone actually informing others of their religion in a respectful and non-argumentative way.
Thank you. As for a story writer... I do... ^__^
I'm also in Forensics Debate. I have a background in argumentative writing....
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DISCLAIMER: I am not being rude. I'm stating my opinion. No personal attacks are meant. Please give some leniency on how you take my words. imagine me saying them with a smile. ^__^
I agree. I didn't feel threatened or offended with the way you presented it, and I'm kinda atheist-like.
F*** Religion. Read more here:
http://www.progressiveu.org/020528-f-religion
Book written on golden plates?
The reason so many mobs tried to run Mormons (thats the term Im gonna use cuz its shorter and easier) out was cuz they asked to see this "Book", which was mysteriously gone.
Apparently the other people werent worthy enough to see the book. yet this kid was.
So there are a bunch of people asking God what is correct, and there is a kid, and the kid gets to know, without any way of being able to prove it, while everyone has to just trust on faith.
oh and that little council you were talkin about? They didnt PICK God. They asked for his help, Like your boy did, and deliberated upon the answer, like your boy did, and after VERY LONG AMOUNTS OF TIME AND MUCH PRAYING, they figured out what He wanted them to know. They didn't pick it, they asked for help and got it.
Finally, the whole concept of Ancients writing a book, ON GOLD, just for some kid to find?
To conclude, I think you need to watch the South Park episode about Mormons. This being because I strongly disagree with the religion, but that doesnt mean that you aren't still a good person who does good in this world. Hate the sin not the sinner ;-D
Gold is one of the most common elements in the earth that does not tarnish with age. It makes sense for it to be written on Gold. Silver, Iron, bronze... They all tarnish in time. A gold, bronze alloy, (Which is what some believe the plates were made out of), would be perfect due to the softness of the metal, the lightened weight due to the bronze, and the ability to resist tarnish. I couldn't have chosen it better myself.
What exactly do you think the mobs would have done had they gotten their hands on the plates? The plates were shown to 12 witnesses. They all witnessed an angle, the plates, and every one of them testified that it was true. While some of these people later left the church for various reason, every one of them held that testimony till the day that they died and refused to deny what they saw.
Christ said: "Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." God chose Joseph Smith because he knew that he would accept the truth. Why didn't he come to a minister of another faith? In Joseph Smith's vision, Christ said, "They draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me." They did not truly accept Christ.
Joseph was searching for the truth. He was in the right place, America, at the right time, during it's time of freedom.
The scriptures say, "Now this is not all; little children do have words given unto them many times, which confound the wise and the learned.": Joseph is a perfect example of this. A trial of faith. Can you believe the words coming from a 14 year old boy?
If what you say about the Nicene Creed is correct, then how come it directly contradicts the teachings of Christ during his mortal ministry?
I have seen enough of the South Park episode. Needless to say, they knew next to nothing about about our church when they wrote it.
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DISCLAIMER: I am not being rude. I'm stating my opinion. No personal attacks are meant. Please give some leniency on how you take my words. imagine me saying them with a smile. ^__^
The Book of Mormon: How would ancient Americans know the word of God? They weren't the chosen people (Israelites), and Christianity obviously had not spread to the Americas by that time.
One thing you said I do agree with: the medieval was very corrupt. However, the Mormon teachings do not line up with the teachings of the first century church. Joseph Smith himself taught polygamy.
The Bible says that no man may look upon God and live; when Moses caught only a glimpse of him, his beard turned white. How could Smith seen have seen the Father and Christ without dying? Obviously it was supposed to have been a healthy discussion. Also, Christ is also the Word: he is one the one who speaks God the Father's will on Earth (except for very extreme occasions).
Besides, all the answers are in the Bible to begin with. How could the first century church teach and learn, if they didn't have all of God's word? The Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price, and Covenants and Doctrines are all works of men, imitating and warping God's word, which you said the Mormon church was founded to correct. If they were supposed to spread the Good News (as it commands in the Bible), then why did they run away to Utah?
At the very beginning of the Book of Mormon, it tells a story about a family who left Jerusalem shortly before its conquering by the Babylonians. The father in this family was a prophet named Lehi. They took the scriptures with them. Over time, religion in the Americas began to become corrupted as well. After Christ's resurrection, he not only visited the apostles, but he visited the people in the Americas and organized a church there as well. Christ said to his apostles during his post-resurrection meeting with them, "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd." This was in reference to the people on the American continent. The church in the Americas eventually became very corrupt and ended up destroying itself.
Before this happened though, one of the few righteous people left, kept a record of the happenings of his people. These later became the Book of Mormon.
God also commanded people in ancient days to practice polygamy. Polygamy was only practiced when it was lawful, and appropriate.
The scripture that you refer to is speaking in reference to seeing God without the aid of the Holy Ghost. Many ancient prophets saw Christ sitting on the right hand of God. They saw this with the power of the Holy Ghost.
Mose's beard didn't turn white. That is simply the cinemagraphic ideals put up by Hollywood that appeared in "The Ten Commandments:
All of the answers are not in the Bible either. God gives us new law in new ages. The lesser of Moses was done away with in the dispensation of Christ. Now that a new dispensation has come, God has given us higher laws to abide to. Some of these are spoken of in the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon is another Testament of Jesus Christ.
The Book of Mormon is the word of Prophets who spoke with god, and a history of the people on the American continent. The Pearl of Great Price is the Book of Abraham and of Moses. The Doctrine and Covenants is a compilation of revelations given to modern day prophets by God.
They "Ran away" because to stay meant death. Wouldn't do a whole lot of good being dead would it?
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DISCLAIMER: I am not being rude. I'm stating my opinion. No personal attacks are meant. Please give some leniency on how you take my words. imagine me saying them with a smile. ^__^
I ask, what became of these "golden-bronze plates"???
God only permitted the translation of part of the plates. The rest he said contained a higher law that we are not yet ready to receive. Once the translation of the authorized portion was complete, Moroni returned and retrieved the gold plates. When the rest of the plates will be translated, no one knows...
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DISCLAIMER: I am not being rude. I'm stating my opinion. No personal attacks are meant. Please give some leniency on how you take my words. imagine me saying them with a smile. ^__^
Oh shit. I'm not even going to begin to tell you how flawed and corrupt your cult is. DB or Percivale will be along soon enough.
Also, long is not what concerns me. Grammar and spelling, on the other hand, do. I can't complain much about your blog, it was written well enough.
Nicholas Aden
Self-Promotion
Dear Nick,
Grow up.
Sincerely,
mhafweet
If you have an opinion, if you have issues, if you see fallacies, point them out, don't just swear. Give me as good a reason to believe that your opinion is a valid as RG's. Lay your opinion out equally concisely. Use references like he did. Address every objection, like he did. Because right now, he has about eight-thousand logic points on you.
Swearing, dear, would have been me utilizing the full spectrum of my colorful vocabulary. But, as per your request, I will (not tonight, obviously) write out a detailed list of things that are wrong with Mormanism and Logically bury you and everyone else in logic points.
Nicholas Aden
Self-Promotion
Great post!
You are the first to explain a religion without being negative about every other religion & condemning everyone else to hell. Impressive! The fact that it was actually interesting helped a lot as well!
What is your major?
We believe quite strongly in the right for everyone to worship as they will. Every religion has truth in it. We simply encourage others to allow us to add to that truth. I respect other religions and love learning about them.
I actually don't have a major. I'm not in college yet. I'm planning on a cinematography major with an Electrical Engineering Minor... Or possibly 3D animation... I'm a bit of a Renaissance Man. I do a bit of everything. Hence the title, "ResidentGeek"
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DISCLAIMER: I am not being rude. I'm stating my opinion. No personal attacks are meant. Please give some leniency on how you take my words. imagine me saying them with a smile. ^__^
This is a pure LDS response to pull people into their faith. See, half of my familiy are mormons or were. Most are on their way out of the church. And this tactic to explain their faith, is a flat out front to hide from what they truly believe.
Now to clear all the air, I would like to tell you what Mormons believe. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
A long time ago, near the planet Kolab, there exisited a group of Gods, including Heavenly Father, Heavenly Mother, Jesus, Satan, and many other spirits. A great war broke out between Jesus and Satan near planet Kolab, over the Jesus' plan of salvation for these spirits. Now we were all part of this war, we just don't realize it. Jesus of course won this war, and his plan of Slavation was chosen. Those spirits that were blessed to side with Jesus in this great war were born into Mormon familes. Those that sided with Satan were damned as devils. And those spirits who chose no sides, were marked with sign of black skin.
Later, Heavenly Father manifested himself into a human body and took Mary as his wife, and had carnal relations with her to give birth to Jesus. And yes, Heavenly Father was married to Mary and Heavenly Mother. As celestial polygamy is okay, and still is preached today. But Mary also had two husbands, Heavenly Father, and Joseph.
Jesus, like mormons, was persecuted for his beliefs. But his plan of salvation is what saved all mormons. What was his plan of salvation? Well, it's what is called the "laws of eternal progression, which entails a spirit body obtaining a flesh body, sinning (or being tempted), recieving the holy spirt by laying on of hands, baptism by emmersion, tithing, obtaining a temple recommend, and finally becoming married and having that marriage sealed in the temple. This is what Mormons lable as salvation, the laws of eternal progression.
Now follow all of these steps and you can obtain the ultimate goal of every Mormon which is to become a God, just like Jesus, just like Heavenly Father, and to be a God of your own universe.
Mormons are very family oriented people and they keep track of family members, both dead and alive. In fact, they have probably the largest geneology record in the United States. Now you would ask yourself, what are all these records for? Well, the Mormons practice baptisms and weddings for the dead. See, Mormons believe in the afterlife, that you can still accept the teachings of Joseph Smith, but there lies one problem. In order to advance in the laws of eternal progression, you must be baptised in the temple, and if you're married, you must be married in the temple to become a God. You can't do this if you're dead and in Heaven. So basically, in all of these Mormon temples around the world, 90% of what goes on in there are works of the dead. A young Mormon,usually a relative, will take on the name of that dead relative, and be baptised in that name. A young couple will take on the names of a dead couple, and be married using their name. This is basically baptism and marriage by proxy for these spirits, so they can move on and become Gods of their own universe.
Now there are yet more rules and more rules to make sure you become a God. One of them is to obtain a temple recommend. Now in order to obtain a temple recommend, you must not drink coffee, not have pre marital sex, not masturbate, if you have recieved your holy undergarments (or mormon underwear) you must always wear it all times. You will also be asked if you associate yourself with any apostates or non believers of the church. Even if they are family, you will be urged not to have relations with them. Then, you will be asked if you believe that the president of the church is a prophet. Lastly, they will not forget this, they will ask if you are a tithe payer. If you are behind, they will ask you to catch up on your tithing, before you get a temple recommend.
it's important to note here that all of this plays an important role in the mormon salvation process. Yes, the type of underwear that you sport, plays a role in your chances of becoming a God.
Well, that is their faith up in a nutshell. Missionaires would always visit my house, sent here from my mormon relatives, to try to convert us. The story you heard the blogger preach is exactly what they told us. But they wouldn't tell us more. They said more truths would be revealed when we would be baptized. Our relatives who are exmormons had to fill us in on the what they really believed. Funny story, but our neighbors converted to Mormon for one week, got baptized, and stopped believing...this was years ago. But the missionaries that were sent over to our house, after they left our house..they popped over to our neighbors. Not to try to convert them, but to remind them that they had back tithing payments to the church due, even though they had stopped believing years ago. My neighbors and my relatives told me they don't want to tell people what they really believe for obvious reasons. People would think they are crazy...
My opinion. Their faith sounds a little Marvel Comic like, but they can believe whatever they want. I've seen, experienced on how this faith can break apart more familes than any other I've seen, and proof can be cound at www.exmormon.org
The strive to be perfect is enormous as Mormons believe they must work or earn their way into heaven, and be very obedient on what the "prophet" says....what the church says, etc..etc... Many of times this can backfire, but it has work for some. Nothing is what it seems when it comes to Mormons. Their religion are masters at creating subtext. They say one thing and mean another. For example, when they say they believe in Jesus Christ as their lord and Savior. They don't mean Jehova, or the Biblical Jesus, they mean the Mormon Jesus, brother of Satan, brother to them. And when they say savior, they mean as the God who created the laws of eternal progression where they can become Gods. They say they don't believe in polygamy, but they believe in celestial polygamy, and some of them have talks with other women about being their "celesital wives" according to my exmormon relatives. When they say they don't belive in many Gods, they are flat out lying. They believe that all man become Gods, including Joseph Smith, Jesus, Heavenly Father, and Heavenly Mother, etc..etc.. Remember, all mormon men have becomed Gods by this time. They belive in many Gods, but they only worship the God of this universe. Who is the God of this universe, that is still debated. It could be Heavenly Father, Jesus, Adam from Adam and Eve....
So this what they believe...
Are they Christian? Well, from my research, Christian's believe something very different than this. Mormons are Mormons, Christians are Christians. And that's my opinion and I'm not a religious guy at all
That was cool, rock on and all, but
I STILL must keep asking, AFTER the first transltion from the gold pages was, well, translated, it was lost. the child then had to retranslate, but they were unworthy, so they read from a DIFFERENT text that had the same story, just different wording.....
show me proof that this is not fake, that this kid didnt start a cult.
OMG! My post is in the highest ranked posts! ^__^ It's my second day too! I'm so totally psyched...
"And that's my opinion and I'm not a religious guy at all"
That much is obvious. Who ever your source is, they are most certainly not acquainted with "Mormon" doctrine.... Your information is highly corrupt boogersnut. I will put up a complete post in response. You have failed miserably to tell of the plan of salvation. I will post on a detailed explanation as to what the plan of salvation REALLY is.
You have stuff so wrong in there it's not even funny.
I may have to make it a sequel post on this. It may be about as long.
The Plan of Salvation is getting into the Principles of what we believe. This blog was more or less a historical primer to its founding.
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DISCLAIMER: I am not being rude. I'm stating my opinion. No personal attacks are meant. Please give some leniency on how you take my words. imagine me saying them with a smile. ^__^
All religion oriented posts should follow this as an example because it is positive for what you believe not attacking anyone else.
Kudos
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much."
Oscar Wilde
LDS stands for Latter Day Saints, so you know.
We will start with the simplest problem: The accuracy of the BoM. (Book of Mormon)
When Joseph Smith first wrote the BoM, he claimed that it was the most accurate book in the history of man. Why, then, has it been subjected to thousands of alterations and revisions? Doesn't that kind of negate the divine message Mr. Smith was supposed to have had?'
Also, there are quite a few MAJOR problems with the historical tellings:
Why, if the American Indians were descended from Lehi, was there such diversity in their languages, and why were there no vestiges of Hebrew in any of them?
Why does the Book of Mormon say that Lehi found horses when he arrived in America? The horse did not exist in the Americas until the Spaniards brought them over in the sixteenth century.
Why was Nephi stated to have a bow of steel? Jews did not have steel at that time, and no iron was smelted in the Americas until the Spanish colonization.
Why does the Book of Mormon mention “swords and cimeters” when scimitars (the current spelling) did not come about until the rise of Islam after 500 A.D.?
Why does the Book of Mormon mention silk, when silk did not exist in the Americas at that time?
These are commonly asked questions concerning the truth behind the BoM. They are typically unanswered, but I'd love to hear your answer.
http://www.contenderministries.org/mormonism/bomproblems.php This website will continue to enlighten people about some of the most glaring inaccuracies with LDS.
Now, I'm not saying you're wrong in your religion, I'm just saying that we shouldn't put faith to an empirical test. Obviously you and I have two very different ideas concerning faith and god, but that doesn't mean that either one of us is wrong. Actually, it does...because my beliefs (or lack thereof) directly contradict yours. But who cares? If you're happy and a decent person, power to you.
Also, wasn't one of the FBIs most wanted criminal a member of the CLDS (Church of LDS) and married to, I believe, 12 women? That can't be good publicity.
Nicholas Aden
Self-Promotion
ownage!
um.... i like catholics.... cuz we arent crazy....
:D
Catholics are worse. Not by much, but they are.
Nicholas Aden
Self-Promotion
I really want to know, because this what I got from my exmormon and mormon familiy members. Not to mention, I have also attended a few services...which were quite strange to be honest. I probably don't have it 100% correct, but I know that most of it is correct. Point out where I was wrong WITHOUT SUBTEXT, and that'll be great.
I am not a religious guy at all. On Sundays, I don't go to any church. I watch football. I love that game. I don't pray much, I don't bless my food, and I'm pretty much a sinner like the man next to me. I do read the bible though quite frequently and I am a God fearing man. I think religion has ruined what was once considered biblical, and truly think all churches need to take the religion out of them and focus on a more personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Why do I think this? Well, if you read the bible, Jesus continually preaches against religion, more so a works based faith.
So correct me where I'm wrong, I welcome it.
USE THE REPLY LINK. I have told you twice now. Please start doing it.
~C
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Hi Residentgeek,
Tell me if I got this wrong... I copied the following from a TBM (True Blue Mormon's) website. Everything I said, is here in his explanation...except as expected, he leaves out the planet Kolab part, and a lot of the parts that most Mormons will leave out because people might think they are crazy. Especially the part about man become Gods.
But here is his text from his site. MY COMMENTS ARE CAPITALIZED..
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God's Plan of Salvation also know as God's Plan of Redemption
Answers to the questions; Whence, Why, Whither?
Where did we come from? Why are we here on Earth? What happens to us after we die?
Our purpose in life, where we came from before birth, why we are here and what will happen when we die. God's plan to test and redeem his children.
Before mortality (living on earth) we existed as literal spirit children of our Heavenly Parents in the spirit world. God, our Heavenly Father provided a plan for us to learn and grow, as part of this plan we came to earth to gain a body. At birth we left the pre-mortal existence and passed though a veil of forgetfulness before entering mortality so that we learn to live by faith and to test us (WHAT HE MEANS HERE IS THAT WE WERE SENT TO EARTH TO SIN). We come to Earth as mortals to gain a body, experience trials and temptations, have agency to choose right or wrong and see if will follow God, our Heavenly Father's Commandments. As part of the plan of Redemption or Salvation, Jesus Christ, the only begotten of our Heavenly Father was sent as our Savior from the fall, to be our exemplar, to lead by example and teach us God's plan (GOD'S PLAN, LAWS OF ETERNAL PROGRESSION, OR NOW LABELED GOD'S REDEMPTION PLAN WHERE MAN CAN BECOME GOD), to redeem us by atoning for our sins and to break the bands of death by being the first to be resurrected. In order to receive salvation, we must accept Jesus Christ as our savior (BUT REMEMBER, THEY DON'T MEAN THE BIBLICAL JESUS WHEN THEY SAY THIS. AND THEY DON'T BELIEVE THAT HE DIED ON THE CROSS FOR OUR SINS, ONLY FOR THE SINS OF ADAM. SO JESUS WASN'T THEIR SAVIOR AS CHRISTIANS SAY IT. THEY CONSIDER HIM THEIR SAVIOR AS HE CREATED THE LAWS OF ETERNAL PROGRESSION WHERE MAN CAN BECOME GOD...TRICKY...), repent of our sins, follow the commandments and His example (BASICALLY TO WORK YOUR WAY INTO HEAVEN. COMMANDMENTS INCLUDE EVERYTHING FROM TITHING, WEARING YOUR SPECIAL UNDERWEAR, ETC...ETC...). We must accept the Gospel of Jesus Christ (WHAT THEY CALL THE BOOK OF MORMON), be baptized by immersion by one with proper priesthood authority as Jesus was (GETTING DUNKED 100% PLAYS A ROLL IN THEIR SALVATION PROCESS) and receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost (LAYING ON OF HANDS CEREMONY). When we die our spirits leave our mortal bodies and go to the spirit world where we will wait depending on our works (actions) (THIS IS A MAJOR ONE. IF THEY BELIEVE AS CHRISTIANS DO, THAT JESUS DIED ON THE CROSS FOR THEIR SINS, THEN WHY WILL THEY BE IN A PURGATORY THAT THEY WILL BE JUDGED ON THEIR WORKS? IT'S BECAUSE THEY DON'T BELIEVE JESUS CHRIST IS THEIR LORD AND SAVIOR, WHO DIED ON THE CROSS TO ATONE FOR ALL MAN AND WOMAN'S SINS.) in mortal life in either Paradise or Spirit Prison until the day of resurrection and judgment. Those who were not taught the gospel on earth will be taught in the spirit world where they may accept or reject it. All will be resurrected, meaning our spirits will be reunited again with our bodies, which will be changed to immortal perfected bodies. Then will come the final judgment, where we will be assigned to one of the three kingdoms of glory; Celestial, Terrestrial, or Telestial according to our faith, works and the grace of God. For we all fall short the glory of God and without his Grace and the Savior Jesus Christ's sacrifice for us we would all be lost. Satan, the 1/3 host of heaven who followed him and his followers on earth, the sons of perdition (those who denied their testimony of Jesus Christ and fought against him) who merit no kingdom of glory will be cast out into outerdarkness, also known as hell or damnation. After this Lucifer and his followers will never tempt us again. (AND LUCIFERS FOLLOWERS ARE LABELED AS PROTESTANT PASTORS)
If you are going to say anything about our religion, I reccomend that you say what you know, not what you wish you knew.
Again, I will go through all of the "Plan of Salvation" in another blog.
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DISCLAIMER: I am not being rude. I'm stating my opinion. No personal attacks are meant. Please give some leniency on how you take my words. imagine me saying them with a smile. ^__^
So the only reason you don't practice polygamy anymore is because it was made illegal even though it was perfectly fine before? Shouldn't the religion come before the law?
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It Changes
I Dance Naked Around A Tree At Midnight
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The Opposite of Equality is Equality
Actually, it was because of the great menstrual wave. All the women in the tribe had their period on the same week and after that, all the men just said, "Fuck it...never, EVER, again."
Nicholas Aden
Self-Promotion
God has given the command for polygamy before, but when the states decided to ban polygamy, God decided that the time for it was over. Our religion believes in "Honoring, Obeying, and sustaining the law, and being subject to kings, presidents, rules, and magistrates." Only when a command given by the government is wicked will be set our foot down and disobey. What ever the choices made by the government are, the consequences of those actions will be on their head not mine.
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DISCLAIMER: I am not being rude. I'm stating my opinion. No personal attacks are meant. Please give some leniency on how you take my words. imagine me saying them with a smile. ^__^
My uncle is a LDS member.
The way God tells the current prophet the changes always seemed strange.
One of the really odd ones was how Blacks could not even be members, then they could, then they could be preists, and the church had a couple fully qualified to be ordained the same day.
I can understand how mortal man learns along the way, but It seem odd for God to follow the same fads as our culture. The excomunication for polygamy is right along the same lines. It WAS OK, then when the US government said no so did god?
"Little vicious minds abound with anger and revenge, and are incapable of feeling the pleasure of forgiving their enemies."
Lord Chesterfield
In the scriptures, it says that the descendants of Cain would be cursed by god until such time as it was lifted. God said that part of this curse was the they would not be able to hold his priesthood. As the church spread into South America, issues arose. When the prophet took it to God, he was told that the time had come to lift that curse from them.
We cannot tell the ways of God, but just for a moment, lets think of what might have happened had god told us to continue polygamy. The US would have declared war on the "Mormons", the freedom of religion would no longer have applied to Mormons now, and the church's ability to preach the gospel would have been seriously deprecated. Now you tell me... Did God make a good call?
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DISCLAIMER: I am not being rude. I'm stating my opinion. No personal attacks are meant. Please give some leniency on how you take my words. imagine me saying them with a smile. ^__^
All of Gods calls are good, but not all of mans expedience is.
You have some good answers, and I don't intend in any way to put LDS teachings down.
There is a place for a Church, under God. As long as the Church loves the truth just as an individual should. Excomunicating their members for not changing their marriages seems harsh, but those who kept their earlier convictions just formed their own churches, so no harm done.
God is essential, and fundamental to my belief. Church is just a fellowship of men. If a man tells me that God's law has changed my first thought would be that either the first 'law' or the second, or just as likely both are not Gods. God is perfect, or he is not God.
"To be wronged is nothing unless you continue to remember it."
Confucius
God's commands change over time.
At times God says, "Kill", and others he says, "Love".
Different times call for different actions. Who are we to judge his actions?
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DISCLAIMER: I am not being rude. I'm stating my opinion. No personal attacks are meant. Please give some leniency on how you take my words. imagine me saying them with a smile. ^__^
No
I suppose the difference is who you trust to tell you what his instructions are.
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much."
Oscar Wilde
God's commands change over time.
At times God says, "Kill", and others he says, "Love".
Different times call for different actions. Who are we to judge his actions?
So it is ok to kill?
In the Theocratic Kingdom of God, when he was ruling in the wilderness with the Jews, he said "eye for eye, tooth for tooth, life for life" that was civil law, that the way God said it was going to be done, just like in the republic we have now, we have civil laws, God has civil laws.
In the New Testament Jesus Christ turned around and said you are no longer in a Theocrocy, the Kingdom of God has arrived here on earth, now I am telling you "love your enemies, bless them that curse you, pray for those that hate you, you are no longer under law, you are entering into Grace.
It is not contridiction or change, in one era God deals this way (law) and in another era God deals this way (grace) as Jesus said "I did not come to destroy the law and the prophets but to fufill them" and "You search the scriptures thinking you will find eternal life, but they speak about me (Jesus)"
If you think Jesus made things easier with the law with his words, just look at the sermon on the mount Matthew 5:27-28 "You have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."
He spoke as one with authourity to add to the Law, don't commit adultery, is much easier than, if you look upon a woman lustfully you have already committed that act in your heart.
j.
In Israel, only the Levities were permitted to hold the Priesthood and administer the temple ordinances. It is really not any different than initially denying the priesthood to blacks. (And the process was a single step. Blacks were permitted from the beginning to be members if [if they were slaves] they had the permission of their master. They were only denied the priesthood.) In 1978 it was extended to them. This is not racism, but a great gift, as great a gift as expanding the priesthood from the Levities to all the Israelites would have been.
Polygamy is okay when God commands it. That is the only determining factor. The practice of polygamy was simply rescinded by God at the same time that our government made it illegal (we do not even practice it in other countries where it is legal because God's law is not specific to a country). God's exact reasoning, I don't know for sure, but I suspect that 1) the purpose for polygamy at that time had been accomplished, 2) it was a confirmation that we believe in being subject to the government and/or 3) it was necessary to discontinue polygamy until further notice for survival.
BTW, those who had already been married to multiple wives were not required to nullify the existing marriage vows, and did not do so. They just not longer married multiple/additional wives.
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"Smart" is definitely a relative term. I know a great many intelligent people who do a great many unintelligent things.
I'm guessing you are a Mormon....
But for one to be a "low" Priest you must be a physical descendant of the Line of Aaron/Levi, hense a Jew/Israeli, as the Jews today are still not sure if they will find someone in that line, there is no way the LDS Church could have a Jew working Temple rituals and No Jew would follow a Polytheistic religion without completely abandining Judaism.
Now low Priest did the general day to day rituals in the temple, the High Priest did the rituals that brought him into the "holy of holies" in the temple, into the presence of God. So without a Jew, you cannot have the Aaronic Priesthood and the Arronic/Levitical has been changed Hebrews 7:11-12
You cannot have the Melchisedeck Priesthood, as it belongs only to Jesus:
Hebrews 7:24 "But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood." the word in the Greek for unchangeable is "aparabatos" which means "unviolated, not to be violated, inviolable, unchangeable and therefore not liable to pass to a successor" So Joseph Smith could not have gotten it nor could have he passed it on. Read all of Hebrews, but chapters 5-8 gives the focus.
j.
Being that boogersnut & OneNJesus29 have batted one through three I will hit clean-up, as I have been too busy to be on the internerd lately haha
Let me first say I have nothing against you as an LDS, LDS, Mormons (any other name given to Mormons), the LDS Church etc, as I dialog with them a few times a month (off the net that is) but I am going to post a few comments to your original post.
I was recently asked what my religion was. Or more accurately, they asked which "cult" I belonged to. Since "Mormonism" has been labeled as a cult since the mobbings a hundred years ago, I felt it appropriate to not only tell what religion I belonged to, but also dispel many myths that people have about our religion.
Fair, but why don't you explain why the Mob came after Joseph Smith and when the was murdered he and his brother were firing their guns back at that mob... Just a thought.
First off, we are not "Mormons". Our church is called "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints". The term "Mormon" was derived from one of the books that our church uses as doctrine. "The Book of Mormon". Our church history has been one that is common to many religions that suffered the effects of religious hatred. Mobs and domestic violence were common place to the early church members. People were murdered, tarred and feathered, and women raped, all because people felt such hatred for the things that our church believes.
Now boogersnut might tackle this one, I'm not so concerned with that part of the LDS past as I am about LDS Doctrine.
The church is not the church of man, but the Church of God. It is the same church first organized by Christ during his time on the earth. Over time, the church became corrupt. Religious leaders began to change the order that Christ had organized. They murdered the prophets and killed the apostles.
I would like some proof for this, now I know Joseph Smith was told not to join any Church as they were all wrong, the doctrines were an abomination, the professors were corrupt (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/19#19) Yet this isn't proof, really one man's opinion, yet years after this "vision" Joseph Smith and many of the members of his family became members of the Presbyterian Church.
In 325 AD, there was heated dispute over many principles of religion. To solve the dispute, all of the major Christian leaders of the time met in Constantinople to discuss the matter. At the end of this meeting of man, they developed a creed, on which, all Christianity would be based. Man decided who God was. Man told God how he came to be, and what his purposes were. Over the course of the next 1500 years, this lack of true authority on the earth continued. This period of time was known as the "Apostasy". Prophesied by prophets generations before, the time in which no true church existed, had begun.
I will loosely say, you really need to study church history, the counsels of Nicea and Constantinople were to deal with different heresies that were creeping into the Church, you might be thinking of the Great Schism of 1054, which separated the Eastern and Western Churches (Roman and Orthodox) That does not equate to the "Apostasy" as you are claiming.
God did not intend on letting this continue though. He had a plan that no human hand could stop. In 1820, a small 14 year old boy named Joseph Smith, was disturbed by the sense of contention and hate that abounded in religions at the time. So many churches proclaimed that they were the "true" church.
My question to you is: Who is lying? Jesus or Joseph Smith? Jesus said in Matthew 16:18 "You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." If there was such a long suffered "Apostasy" for what would look to be 1300-1700 years until Joseph Smith came onto the earthly scene, did Jesus lie when he spoke of the church saying: the gates of hell shall not prevail against it? or did Joseph make up his first vision?
.And yet they differed so blatantly in their beliefs. Confused on the matter, Joseph took the matter to the scriptures. In James, Chapter One verse Five, Joseph read: "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him”
I agree if you need wisdom you should go to the source of all wisdom, God. But the thing is in context of that that verse is talking about is wisdom when going through trials and temptations. I also agree Joseph Smith was confused with the beliefs of the historic Christian faith, and it is proven is his writings in the Pearl of Great Price and Doctrine and Covenants as well as other writings of LDS Church Doctrine.
Determined to discover the truth, Joseph took the challenge presented by James and early in the morning of spring 1820, Joseph knelt in a secluded woodland to ask God which of all the churches was true. God the father and Christ appeared to Joseph and told him that none of the churches of the time were true, and that he should join none of them.
I addressed this at the beginning, but I shall again, (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/19#19) If the Christian church needed restoration, Jesus sure didn't know about, if you read, Revelation chapters 2 & 3 you seen a clear view of how Jesus see Churches through history, today and in the future, as each Church represents a time period from the time of the Apostles, to the end of the Church Age, as well as it shows different churches at any given time where any church could be at ie: the church at Ephesus, had strong Doctrine, but lost it's first love: Jesus. So Jesus speaking to John in the Book of Revelation knew nothing of a restoration that needed to take place. Before you try and jump all over the Reformation, the Reformation was a turning back to the Bible and away from the corruption of the Roman Church. If the LDS Church was "restoring" historical Christianity would find that it would be inline with what historic Christianity taught, which it clearly does not. More on this later
Joseph was mocked by people everywhere for what he proclaimed, but Joseph did not falter in his story. In 1823, three years after his glorious vision, Joseph was visited once more by visitors from heaven. This time, it was an angel named Moroni. He told Joseph that God had prepared a work for him and that there was a book written on plates of gold by ancient inhabitants of the Americas buried in a nearby hillside.
Couple points, couple questions... Being mocked doesn't make one a Prophet of God, nor a leader of a fancy new sect that thinks it is Christianity.
"Joseph did not falter in his story"? I would challenge you to look at all the evidence from your own sources that show that his story changed on several accounts, before his death he doubted he if he actually saw anything at all.
Question: Why hadn't Moroni reached exaltation? Why was he an angel? Nowhere in any Mormon writings (D&C, POGP, BOM) does it show people become angels, might have this "angel" been an angel of light as mentioned in 2 Corinthians 11:14? And it is not big thing for this angel of light to have his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness (2 Corinthians 11:15) as there are false Apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ (2 Corinthians 11:13) and as there is another Gospel (Galatians 1:6-10, 2 Corinthians 11:4) and there is another Spirit and another Jesus (2 Corinthians 11:4) so if this is the case, and with your "testimony" or your burning you receive as a confirmation that the Book of Mormon is true, I would ask you to as your self if Satan himself walks around as an angel of light and there is another Gospel, another Spirit and another Jesus, do you think that the burning you are feeling might be a fiery dart of the enemy? (Ephesians 6:16)
The Gold plates or Golden plates, for the size and the known weight of gold, the plates would have come in at close to 200lbs or over, plus the modern pictures of the gold plates show it was if it were in a two ring binder, one the pages would be thin and would easily rip off; two, the size would hold the amount of writting that was in the Book of Mormon and considering that there was more from that set of plates that were never translated it would be a far cry that the plates would be as small as they have been shown as. (6"X 8"X 6") The weight of that object would be about 200lbs (http://www.elmhurst.edu/~chm/vchembook/125Adensitygold.html) Not impossible to carry, but a person of Joseph size would not be running and jumping over logs in the forest as the account claims.
Four years later, Joseph was told by Moroni that God was prepared to have Joseph translate the record. Through the power of God, and over the course of the next three years, Joseph translated the gold plates. The published copy of this record, known as the Book of Mormon, has since been translated into over 78 languages and more than 100 Million copies have been printed.
Ok, where are the plates?
Although the Book of Mormon is a major part of our religion, it is not the only source of Doctrine used by the Church. The compilation of all the scriptures used are known as the "Standard Works".
The Standard works include:
The Old Testament
The New Testament
The Book of Mormon
The Pearl of Great Price
The Doctrine and Covenants
Yes they are, so let us look at some differences... I will skip the Bible for now, as it is clear there is one God, throughout the Bible.
Here are some differences with the Book of Mormon and the other Church writings:
One God
Book of Mormon
Alma 11:27-39, 44
2 Nephi 31:21
Mormon 7:7
3 Nephi11:27
Testimony of Three Witnesses
Plural Gods
Doctrine and Covenants
D&C Section 121:32
D&C Section 132:18-20, 37
God is a Spirit
Book of Mormon
Alma 18:26-28
Alma 22:8-11
God Has a Body
Doctrine and Covenants
Section 130:22
God Dwells in Heart
Book of Mormon
Alma 34:36
God Does Not Dwell in Heart
Doctrine and Covenants
Section 130:3
Creation - One God
Book of Mormon
2 Nephi 2:14
Jacob 4:9
Pearl of Great Price
Book of Moses
Chapter 2
Creation - Plural Gods
Pearl of Great Price
Book of Abraham
Chapter 4
Chapter 5
God Cannot Lie
Book of Mormon
Ether 3:12
2 Nephi 9:34
God Commands Lying
Pearl of Great Price
Book of Abraham
Chapter 2:22-25
God's Word Unchangeable
Book of Mormon
Alma 41:8
God's Word Can Change
Doctrine and Covenants
Section 56:4-5
No Pre-Existence of Man
Book of Mormon
Jacob 4:9
Alma 18:28, 34-36
Man Pre-Existed
Doctrine and Covenants
Section 93:23, 29-33
Pearl of Great Price
Book of Abraham
Chapter 3:18, 21-23
Death Seals Man's Fate
Book of Mormon
Mosiah 2:36-39
Alma 34:32-35
Chance After Death
Doctrine and Covenants
Section 76:106-112
Section 88:99
Heathen Saved Without Baptism
Book of Mormon
Moroni 8:22-23
2 Nephi 9:25-26
Mosiah 15:24-27
Baptism for Dead
Doctrine and Covenants
Section 128:5, 17-18
Heaven or Hell
Book of Mormon
2 Nephi 28:22
1 Nephi 15:35
Mosiah 16:11
Mosiah 27:31
Alma 41:4-8
Alma 42:16
Three Kingdoms in Heaven - Most Saved
Doctrine and Covenants
Section 76:43, 70-112
Murder Can Be Forgiven
Book of Mormon
3 Nephi 30:2
No Forgiveness For Murder
Doctrine and Covenants
Section 42:18
Polygamy Condemned
Book of Mormon
Jacob 1:15
Jacob 2:24
Jacob 3:5
Mosiah 11:2
Polygamy Commanded
Doctrine and Covenants
Section 132:1, 37-39, 61
Against Paid Ministry
Book of Mormon
2 Nephi 26:31
Mosiah 27:5
For Paid Ministry
Doctrine and Covenants
Section 42:71-73
Section 43:12-13
Section 51:13-14
Corrupt Churches Promise Forgiveness For Money
Book of Mormon
Mormon 8:32
Church Members Who Tithe Will Not Burn
Doctrine and Covenants
Section 64:23
Adam in America
Doctrine and Covenants
Section 107:53
Section 116:1
Section 117:8
Adam in Old World
Pearl of Great Price
Book of Moses 3:8, 10-15
Differences with the 1830 version of the Book of Mormon and the modern version:
Modern: 1 Nephi 11:18 And he said unto me, Behold, the virgin whom thou seest is the mother of the Son of God
1830:1 Nephi 3 (p25) And he said unto me, Behold, the virgin whom thou seest is the mother of God, after the manner of the flesh
Modern: 1 Nephi 11:21 And the angel said unto me, behold the Lamb of God, even the Son of the Eternal Father!
1830:1 Nephi 3 (p25) And the angel said unto me, behold the Lamb of God, even the Eternal Father!
Modern: 1 Nephi 11:32 And I looked and beheld the Lamb of God, that he was taken by the people; yea, the Son of the Everlasting God, was judged of the world.
1830: 1 Nephi 3 (p26) And I looked and beheld the Lamb of God, that he was taken by the people; yea, the Everlasting God, was judged of the world.
Modern: 1 Nephi 13:40 These last records ... shall make known to all kindreds, tongues, and people, that the Lamb of God is the Son of the Eternal Father and the Savior of the world.
1830: 1 Nephi 3 (p32) These last records ... shall make known to all kindreds, tongues, and people, that the Lamb of God is the Eternal Father and the Savior of the world.
Modern: Alma 29:4 yea, I know that he alloteth unto men, according to their wills
1830: Alma 15 (p303) yea, I know that he alloteth unto men, yea, decreeth unto them decrees which are unalterable, according to their wills.
Modern: Esther 4:1 ...and for this cause did King Mosiah keep them...
1830: Esther 1 (p546) ...and for this cause did King Benjamin keep them...
Modern: Mosiah 21:28 ...King Mosiah had a gift from God, whereby he could interpret such engravings...
1830: Mosiah 9 (p200) ...King Benjamin had a gift from God, whereby he could interpret such engravings...
Modern: 2 Nephi 12:9 ...and the mean man boweth not down, and the great man humbleth himself not...
1830: 2 Nephi 8 (p87) ...and the mean man boweth down, and the great man humbleth himself not...
Modern: 1 Nephi 20:1 ...O house of Jacob, which are called out of the waters of Judah, or out of the waters of baptism, which swear by the name of the Lord...
1830: 1 Nephi 5 (p52) ...O house of Jacob, which are called out of the waters of Judah, which swear by the name of the Lord...
Modern: 2 Nephi 30:6 ...and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a pure and a delightsome people.
1830: 2 Nephi 12 (p117) ...and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a white and a delightsome people.
Over the course of the next 14 years, the church would be driven from state to state by mobs. Everywhere they went, the church was the target of persecution and rage.
By mobs you mean the US Government told them if the continued in polygamy they would be expelled to Mexico, then I guess you mean mobs.
In 1944, Joseph Smith was murdered while being held under false charges at Carthage Jail in Illinois. After Joseph's Martyrdom, Brigham Young became the new Prophet of the church. Young led the church out of the United States into what is now Utah. Even there, they continued to be persecuted as the Gold Rush later began in the west.
A martyr doesn't have a gun in ones hand defending himself.
There are many myths about the church that have spread like wildfire. I would now like to dispel many of these myths and quell unease about the church.
You bring up Brigham Young, he taught Adam-god, the LDS have distanced themselves from that doctrine, if God speaks through LDS prophets and the prophet speaks as God moves the prophet, was Brigham right with the Adam-god doctrine or was the LDS right in removing it?
We DO believe in Jesus Christ. He is our savior and the most important part of our religion. He is the center and foundation for everything that we believe.
Again 2 Cornithians 11:4 there is another Jesus, as your religion more than strays from the historic Christian faith, it re-writes all the basic beliefs behind the terms, yet uses the same words to sound "Christian"
We do not practice polygamy. It was practiced for a short time during the churches early days. In order for a man to marry more than one woman, he must have approval from both his wife, and a leader of the church. This practice was immediately disposed of after the United States made it illegal. Any modern day people who practice polygamy are not members of our church. Any member who practices polygamy is excommunicated.
I am shocked that an LDS would actual admit it was because of the US government, yet it still doesn't change the fact that D&C 132 says that it is "an everlasting covenant" How can something be "everlasting" if it has stopped all together? D&C 132 is clear one cannot enter the Celestial Kingdom with out a plural marriage.
We don't have horns... Does that even make any sense to you?
No, not sure what this has to do with anything....
We do not worship Joseph Smith. He was a prophet. Not a god. We worship only God the Father and do not worship any other Gods.
You follow the teaching of Joseph Smith, Joseph taught that there are many gods (polytheism) the Bible clearly teaches that there is one God (monotheism) by nature and there are no other gods and anything that might call itself a god it not a god at all, it is either made up in the mind of man or has it's power from demons. To be a polytheist you don't have to worship other gods, you just have to believe that there are other gods. God says "I am God, beside me there is no other god" "there is no god formed before me and no god formed after me, I am eternal god"
We are not a cult. (Unless worshipping God makes us one.)
No, calling yourselves Christians and saying you have "restored" Christianity to the earth and that you will one day become a god, as god once was man is & as god is man may become, those are some of the things that make you a cult.
I hope that by informing those here more about our religion that people will be better able to understand us and our beliefs. If you have any questions, feel free to comment below or visit the official church website at: LDS.org
I hope we will dialog on these issues and more, since you have taken the skin of the truth (used Christian terms) and stuffed them with a lie.
j.
Now with more .JPG!
Nicholas Aden
Self-Promotion
First I would like to thank my mom and dad for standing behind me and believing in me through the good times and the bad and especially my mom for birthing me, my manager, my hair stylist, my cats, my guitars for being well guitars, the guy that sells hotdogs on the corner after hockey games, my teaches who said if I would just apply myself I could be someone, I want thank my computer for having a monitor to receive this award, I want thank Osama Bin Laden for giving the Americans a reason for war and a reason to stay mad at somebody, I want to thank glasses because I don't need them, I want to thank my full head of hair, I want to thank long walks on the beach, I want to thank the easter bunny for being so fluffy, I want thank my large collection of books and commentaries, I want to thank mullets you know what you do, Kim Jong Il for being a short dictator in a long line of short dictators you make me laugh lil Kim, I want to thank bellybutton fuzz for just being bellybutton fuzz, I want to thank lazy days, all my homies and crew of the 604 ohh yeah! ohh and before I forget I want to thank my publicist and God.
j.
Okay, I have 6 questions:
1. Why do you say ``We are not Mormons`` but the TV commercials say, ``A message from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints... the Mormons!"
2. I heard that the LDS have a "Golden Question." What is that question?
3. What is this LDS underwear I`ve heard about?
4. Is chocolate forbidden?
5. LDS missionaries always look impeccably dressed and neat. Is personal grooming a part of the religious teaching?
6. Is there a good possibility that the younger generation in the church will change the anti-gay politics?
1. Why do you say ``We are not Mormons`` but the TV commercials say, ``A message from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints... the Mormons!"
I was thinking the same thing.
j.