I have been reading lots of antiracist liturature over the past year or so and I have yet to find an answer to my nuber one question, what is postive about being white? While i do beleive that ethnic and cultural pride can in some ways be a positive way to cope with and not be overcome by the emtionally pain of white guilt therefore allowing the concious white person to act effectively as an mechanism for undoing racism and not indulging in white guilt, yet it seperates the individaul form the white experiance (i.e. I am proud to be polish but not white). does anyone have any ideas of postive things the white race because all i can come up with for white culture is that white people have traded culture in return for privilege.
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What!? Who cares about this race Identity crap? F#$@ all the other races. You want to know what Race I am? I am F@^!# PROUD of MY Race since it is the BEST race. Yes, that's right. I'm willing to FIGHT for my race, because that is My Identity and My people. I was born this race and It is the only race I care about. It's the HUMAN RACE.
it is an abuse of privilege to deny your race. i am not poc but I am pretty sure that they have a hard time subscribing to the human race when they are being discriminated against.
Huh? What is poc?
A poc is a person of color. The concept is white people have a fendementally different experiance in America, and suffer a considerably smaller psychological toll because we members of the dominainant race. (here I am assumeing that you are in fact white, if this is incorrect, i apoligize) whether or not you accept this is your decsion, but i suggest that you read articles such as Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack by Peggy McIntosh before you decide to reject it. However, if you beleive that racism still exists in America, and I would try to assure you that it does (I have been lucky enough to have some wonderful poc take the time to educate me on their experiances, something that is not their responsiblity and is certainly not easy). While I understand you impluse to desire a colorblind society and once would have responded with a comment of the same sort, i have, through research and conversation, come to realize that a colorblind soceity is the egalitarian system that we would hope it could be but instead a society that is blind to the racial injustice. While the path to understanding white privilege is a painful and often tramatic one it is an important step toward healing the racial devide in this country. It is also important to remember that the psychological insecurity that occurs alongside the realization of privilege it is minimal in comparision to that of POC. It is easy to get caught up in white guily but to do so is not only self indulgent but makes you an ineffiective mechanism for social change, which is where and effective white idenitity comes into play. it is important to find positive thing about ones identity and considering the bloody history of europeans and colonialism. So if you are interested in working towards an actual colorblind society that doesnot accept or ingore diversity but rather embreaces it, i suggest researching white privilege. The article i mentioned above is a good place to start and I would be happy to suggest more.
I definately agree that we need to be aware of racism, prejudice and address it when it arises. The goal of course is the establishment of a purely egalitarian world where there is no subconcious prejudice lurking in the back of the mind. And this has to be done by becoming fully aware and confront prejudice and then eliminate it from ourselves and our world forever.
then why, i might ask, deny your whiteness (here i am making an assumption, but it is based on the fact that i have only in my limited experiances met white people you had denied that they had a race outside of the human one, this is not nessisarily fair, but please bare with me as this is a very inpersonal form of communication). i cannot suggest an effective way to deal with white guilt, other than ethinic pride which like i said before is only a partial solution. what i don't understand is why you responded so militantly. i was merely asking if anyone else had any ideas about an effective white idenity that i could use as i work towards the recognition of injustice. i was just looking for advice from more experianced allies not intended to fire anyone up.
You know, not too long ago, there was a little discussion between this black girl and a Polish boy. The black girl was talking about Caucasian people and how she was mad at/didn't like them(she was his friend but she obviously had a lot of anger). The Polish boy tried to tell her how he was Polish but she simply said, "but that's the same thing [as being white]". I was actually disgusted by that. I couldn't believe she could say that so heartlessly. I wish people knew other people by their racial origins(country) instead of a simple title like white, black, yellow, blurple, light-skinned, dark-skinned etc. Everyone should be proud of their origin(s). But I think even people of other origins can be proud of someone of another origin too. I think there is too much tension in our society. It's like, if someone talks about how they're Irish and you're not, then it is suppose to be uncomfortable.
To Oleirer, isn't it an injustice that you cannot be proud of who are/where you came from but all around you people want you to recognize their plight and the injustice that has been done to them?
I fear no man(Nazgul)...i'm no man(Eowyn) -LoTR
White identity is stupid. I have no pride in being white. However, my family is from the deep south, so I feel pride in being Southern, and I am of Scottish, Irish, and Welsh descent, so I have Celtic Pride. In fact, I am descended from Robert the Bruce, the guy in Braveheart who isn't William Wallace, but the guy who narrates at the beginning and leads the Scots to victory at the end, and I'm also descended from another Scottish rebel from the 1700s, which is why my family had to come to America. So no, there is no pride in being white, because there is no "white" culture, but most white people have a more specific culture that they can take pride in.
It amuses me how Americans use the terms "white", "Caucasian" to label people.
Can anyone explain to me what "white" means?
"White" and "Caucasian" are generally synonymous in terms of racial identity. They generally refer to the racial group of the distinct peoples of Europe.
I think you already knew this.
"They generally refer to the racial group of the distinct peoples of Europe."
Distinct peoples of Europe? Like the Spaniards? The Portuguese? The Irish? The Polish? Or the various other European peoples who were all at one point or other labeled as inferior to the Anglo/Germanic peoples.
The distinct peoples of Europe generally identify themselves by their nationality. Asking Europeans to reduce themselves and their various cultures to nothing more than 'White' or 'Caucasian' would be met with extreme derision.
The problem in America lies with the fact that 'White' people have lost their identities, they have all been lumped under a one-size-fits-all banner, as if they are the same. Europe is not a single country and it has never been united in anything but name.
The fact is that none of the supposedly united White peoples of Europe, who modern day White racists want so desperately to unite, were considered anything near the Mighty White of the fanciful Aryan by the Anglo/Germanic peoples of Europe (or in the US when they were running around persecuting Roman Catholics and calling Irish people 'white niggers'). In fact they were visciously persecuted by them.
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I am the people my mother warned me about.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/tuffgong
TUFFGONG
Senior Executive Administrator™
"answer to my nuber one question, what is postive about being white?"
-You have to answer that question for yourself. Is there anything positive about being any specific racial group? If you answer no, we're done with the conversation for you.
In my opinion, the culture and progression brought forth and borne from the European race is by far, without question, the most amazing of all. The European peoples and their descendants have produced most of the inventions of our modern world, whether it be in the fields of science, aeronatics, space exploration, computers, whatever.
There's so much to be proud of, it's almost mean bringing it up in comparison to other races and cultures.
"In my opinion, the culture and progression brought forth and borne from the European race is by far, without question, the most amazing of all."
What race would that be then? Have you ever taken the time to examine the diversity of ethnicities contained within Europe? Where do you think Hispanic people originated, Mexico?
This 'European race' crap is typical of White-pride Americans who know little to nothing about Europe and who have never actually been to any of it's many countries or explored any of it's cultures in any meaningful way. It amuses me to some degree, because for all their purported pride in their European roots, they usually prove themselves the most likely Americans to hate Europeans when they meet them. If they ever managed to make it to European soil, they would scamper back to the US sharpish, with tales of 'homos', 'race traitors' and 'liberal commies'.
The irony here is that if you truly believe that the culture and progress borne of Europeans is 'the most amazing of all', then the fact that your leanings towards racism and racial superiority are marginalized by such a culture both in the US and Europe as regressive nonsense, should serve as an indicator to you that such a culture has over-taken you and those who share your views.
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I am the people my mother warned me about.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/tuffgong
TUFFGONG
Senior Executive Administrator™
What race would that be then? Have you ever taken the time to examine the diversity of ethnicities contained within Europe? Where do you think Hispanic people originated, Mexico?
Comments like this cut both ways. Have you ever taken the time to examine the various people's of Africa? There are hundreds of different tribal ethnicities. And there is a great deal of historical animosity between them. There is plenty of physical diversity between a Kalahari bushman and a Zulu. So it is is somehow inappropriate to talk about the "white race", then it is equally inappropriate to talk about the "black" race.
Hispanic is a word that originally referred to people from the Iberian pennisula of Europe. Its use to describe people from South of the USA border is strictly an artificial construct of the USA Census Bureau. These various peoples never referred to themselves as Hispanics until quite recently. They might have called themselves "Latino". They certainly are not a race. They are composed of Europeans, Blacks, indiginous Americans and others, some of whom have mixed blood and others of whom do not with the main thing they have in common being geography. Large numbers of them speak Spanish but Portugese, French, Dutch, and English are all in significant use in Latin America.
Race is a fuzzy word and it is certainly as valid to talk about a white race as it is to talk about a black race and a white race makes far more sense than a hispanic race.
"Comments like this cut both ways."
I never suggested they didn't.
"Have you ever taken the time to examine the various people's of Africa?"
Of course I have, I'd look a little stupid if I went around making comments like the one above if I hadn't. I've reiterated such a point numerous times on this site over the past year and a bit.
"So it is is somehow inappropriate to talk about the "white race", then it is equally inappropriate to talk about the "black" race."
I agree with you completely. I'm all about one race: the human race. There is no difference between various ethnicities which makes it impossible for us to interbreed, so I have far greater concerns regarding cultural aspects of various groups of people than I have for relatively trivial racial differences.
For example, the fact that a guy adheres to a violent and destructive racist ideology is of far greater concern to me than the colour of his skin.
"Hispanic is a word that originally referred to people from the Iberian pennisula of Europe. "
It is a word which refers to people from, or who ORIGINATED from the Iberian peninsula. Therefore it is an accurate descriptor for people from South and Central America who have ancestral lineage originating from the Iberian peninsula.
"They certainly are not a race."
Um, that's kinda what I was getting at when I was addressing the whole 'European Race' fallacy. The people of Europe are all made up of different ethnicities, including the mixed ethnicities of the Spanish and Portuguese cultures from which many South and Central Americans are descended. People who tout the 'European Race' card like to conveniently forget that the cultures of the Iberian peninsula played a very active role in the progression of European culture.
"Race is a fuzzy word and it is certainly as valid to talk about a white race as it is to talk about a black race and a white race makes far more sense than a hispanic race."
Yes, but that's not what I was getting at: my point was that focusing on racial concerns overlooks cultural concerns and in turn fosters ignorance and fallacious bigotry. I think focusing on a certain culture, while ignoring race, is a far better approach to understanding human beings and it is a far better route to achieving meaningful progress.
Racism is the preserve of those who are too stupid, ignorant or lazy to even begin to attempt to understand how culture affects various portions of our society for good or ill. It is far easier for racists to assume that a person with black skin who flourishes both economically and intellectually is some kind of racial anomaly, than it is to concede that cultural and sociological concerns dictate how a person develops over racial ones. And before you jump upon this as being one sided, I will also highlight the fact that this example can also be applied to a person with white skin who chooses to act in a manner which racists like to traditionally designate as typical of people with a less than snowy complexion.
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I am the people my mother warned me about.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/tuffgong
TUFFGONG
Senior Executive Administrator™
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rofl
Black is Beautiful
For once I agree with my fellow Cuban (hence, mulatto) cousin, jackthenimble.
Jack, you gonna anger your friends at VDARE if you continue questioning such a construct as the "white race" ...