I love abortion. It gives me such a great feeling- the murder, the hatred, the choice, the love. Adoption enters the thoughts, exits, then reenters. Rape, incest, deformities abound. Arguments occur. Friends are lost, enemies are made, friends are gained. Religion takes place near the realm of abortion. Religion is lost, religion is found; either way it is heavily preached.
Abortion- it’s one of the hottest topics here on ProU. Each time I read an abortion blog, I lose a little more faith in the human race. Each argument is full of flawed logic, emotion, hate, love, and religion. The same arguments are heard over and over, the same protectors of intelligence come to the rescue. It’s an endearing event. I’ve even written one myself, mainly because I needed it to explain part of my moral code. I didn’t use emotion, fantasy, religion, or my own experiences to shape or support my view. I was objective. Period. Unfortunately, this isn’t always the case.
Please, if you choose to write an abortion blog use some logic. We’ve heard about what your preacher, your momma, and your boyfriend has to say about the topic. We know it’s “killing a fetus” that is “just a blob of cells”. We know that there’s rape, incest, deformities, and an entire flock of exceptions to your carefully puked up rant. We know “your mom chose life”, and that we “should choose adoption” even though “kids never ever are adopted”. We know that "it's a child, not a choice", a woman "has rights to her body", and that we shouldn't "punish" the fetus for our mistakes. We’ve seen and heard about Juno. Be different- try logic for a change. Remain calm in your argument. Let someone who disagrees with you read it first. Read the opposing view, and see if you’ve covered some of the common arguments against yourself. Use appropriate terminology. Don't call a 2-minute old embryo a child. A 6-month old baby isn't a child, so why use inappropriate terminology? Likewise, don't call an embro a blob of cells, or a glob of tissue. It's an embryo.
Whether you’re pro-life, pro-choice, anti-kill, anti-choice, anti-life, or whatever, let’s be progressive and think for a change.
you say that we shouldn't argue and that makes us progressive??? How can we have progress if we don't discuss things? How can anything happen if we just shut up about it? I have a very simple solution for you; If you don't like what people have to say in a blog that they've written, if it ticks you off to read them, DON'T READ THEM! See... it's easy!
She wasn't saying we shouldn't stop arguing, she was saying we should be rational in our abortions arguments. Just as the same ideas recycled over and over again gets old after awhile.
sometimes repeation is the only way to get your point noticed....
...or to sound like an idiot who can only see things one way.
As the last poster stated, the goal here is not to get people to stop arguing. It's to get them to argue LOGICALLY. Most of the abortion posts on here sound ridiculously stupid. I'd like to see that change, no matter what the views of the author are.
F*** Religion. Read more here:
http://www.progressiveu.org/020528-f-religion
Are you suggesting that I sould like an idiot? I'm sorry if you feel that way... but it's rediculous if you do
That's not what she was saying at all.
Maybe idiot wasn't the right word. Maybe she could have phrased the whole thing differently. Maybe she should have said repeating the same thing over and over isn't arguing; it's just being repetitive. Which gets old and, yes, does make the person repeating the same thing multiple times sound like they don't actually know anything about the topic--they're just stating their opinion over and over in hopes that eventually the other person will see the light.
Repeating things doesn't get your point across any clearer. The person got your point. Just because they don't agree, doesn't mean they don't understand what you're saying. When you keep repeating it with the idea that they don't understand and that's why they keep arguing, then you're the one treating them like an idiot.
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I have to agree with LeslieQ that the repetitive argument leaves the arguer sounding like an idiot. I starts to sound as if the person has no other defense for their thesis.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman
No, that's not what I'm suggesting- no hidden messages here. What I'm specifically stating is that when ANYONE repeats the same thing over and over, that person begins to sound like an idiot. If you must repeat your claim over and over, you're either not explaining it well, not explaining it logically, or the person is simply not open to your idea. If something does not work right the first time, don't do the same thing over again. Try something different, because obviously the first approach is ineffective.
By the way, you spelled "sould" and "rediculous" wrong. The correct spellings are "sound" and "ridiculous".
F*** Religion. Read more here:
http://www.progressiveu.org/020528-f-religion
...
I didn't get that impression for her post at all. My impression was that she is encouraging everyone to formulate a sound argument. Saying an argument is weak does not insult a person's intelligence...it merely challenges the arguer to step it up a little.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman
I'm not claiming superior intelligence, calling anyone an idiot, or trying to get people to stop discussing things. My only point here is that if you decide to write about a topic that is normally based on emotion, detach yourself and start making some logical sense of the mess. You can't appeal to everyone with emotion, but you can appeal to any sensible person with logic.
F*** Religion. Read more here:
http://www.progressiveu.org/020528-f-religion
I do agree that repeating things over and over again doesn't get points across correctly... but the way it was said didn't make it seem that way... and by the way, pointing out my typing error wasn't needed. I was using the schools keyboard which I'm not used to.
Nobody else seems to think that the statement was misleading.
F*** Religion. Read more here:
http://www.progressiveu.org/020528-f-religion
Wrote a blog today... took what you said and wrote my own blog on abortion. It's not the same old same old. I refuse to push my views on others. If you have and questions or ideas, leave me a comment. Let me know if I left anything out.
http://progressiveu.org/105047-abortion-new-look-things
Regardless of what we think personally, the government has decided it needs to take part in what an individual woman should or should not do to/with her body in terms of pregnancy primarily. My question is why do they care so much? Have they noticed how the foster care system sucks and is filled with unwanted children wanting to be loved but not enough willing participates to do so. Why dont they try to resolve the issues with the children that are alrady here with no one to care for them, and all the MANY problems with this country. When all is resolved then MAYBE, MAYBE, take a crack at women and abortion. FYI - I am pro-choice, I come from a family bigger than the Brady bunch crew, I love children , I want to have 4 kids(yeah that many) and I believe a woman should do what she wants to her body. We are not in her mind, we dont live her life why the hell should the government or anyone have any say so in whether she wants to be a mother? Whatever her circumstances to becoming pregnant she has to make the choice for HERSELF, and herself alone not by the guidance of government, the minute we let them take away our choices its a stepping stone to taking away other choices.
individual woman should or should not do to/with her body in terms of pregnancy primarily. My question is why do they care so much?
The reason they care so much is that from their perspective, it is not just a woman making a choice about her own body. It is about a woman making a choice to terminate (kill, murder) a separate human life with completely different DNA that happens to be growing within her body. I suppose there are a few that are against even birth control but most that are against abortion feel the time for choice is BEFORE the woman gets pregant. (And yes, there are the rape/ incest/abuse/health issue that must be considered.)
I'm personally pro-choice up until the fetus has grown to the point where it would be a viable separate life outside the womb which is about 6 months. I'd also make some exceptions for situations impacting the mother's health or for babies with birth defects however I think these cases should require some review either in Court or before a panel of Doctors so that the exceptions are not abused to the point where it is meaningless. That gives the mother plenty of time to realize she is pregnant and to make a choice. Once the fetus is capable of living outside the womb then in my mind it is a person and killing it is murder.
But despite being mostly pro-choice, I think the pro-life side of the argument is very strong and perhaps superior from a moral perspective. DNA is compelling stuff and it is clear that from the moment of conception, that the embryo is a separate life entirely distinct from the Mother's. We have very rigourous standards about killing people in our society and even manifestly evil people on death row get an extreme benefit of the doubt in the form of almost unlimited appeals. It is a strange double standard that allows a mother to terminate an innocent human life with no judicial review or appeal on behalf of that innocent life.
The pro-choice argument about freedom and personal choice is an inferior argument. Killing other living people has never been part of the freedoms we enjoy. With the exception of self-defense, taking another life has always been beyond what society found acceptable. Therefore we could if we chose, limit a woman's ability to terminate a human life without the risk of a slippery slope of losing other freedoms. Indeed abortion was illegal for most of our country's existence and we were more free for most of that time than we are now. Fully half of the laws in our massive legal code have been written in the last 50 years and we were more free before they were written back in the days when abortion was illegal.
I am in a limited way pro-choice because I allow practical concerns to outwigh moral concerns with respect to abortion. There is the issue of unwanted children and a poor adoption system. And there is the reaIity that an abortion is a whole lot less costly to society then a welfare baby. But my big thing is the gene pool. I frankly am a big fan of eugenics with only one key caveot. Generally I think there is a lot of room for improving the human gene pool and I think far too many of the wrong people genetically are having far too many babies. My only problem with eugenics is that I don't trust anybody (except perhaps myself) to have that much power to make those decisions. Despite my enthuisiasm for eugenics, that caveot makes eugenics a non-starter that I could never support.
But abortion is the next best thing. It is not true in every case, but in general people who need abortions are not the brightest bulbs or the finest examples of human genetics. Yes, I am aware that birth control is only 99.5% effective and that some women become pregnant as a result of rape. But birth control failures only account for the tiniest fraction of abortions and rapes/incest/abuse are another tiny fraction. The vast majority of abortions are happening to woman who were not smart or careful enough to take preventative contraceptive measures. Contraception is easy. It is not even close to being rocket science. And it is a lot cheaper than an abortion too so the economic status argument doesn't fly. Every time one of these not so smart woman decides to have an abortion I see it as self-selecting eugenics in action and believe it is an overall win for the human gene pool. My practical concern for bettering the human race overrides my moral concern for killing innocent human fetuses. I guess I am not a very moral person but that is the way I see it.
I don't like the idea of requiring judicial review for something like this. Have you ever hired an attorney? It's not cheap, and the information needed to file paperwork is not widely available. I think this would be a big barrier for even middle class clients.
I love abortion. Read more here:
http://progressiveu.org/044921-i-love-abortion-even-if-it-murder
I think a panel of Doctors would be qualified to determine whether there was really an issue of the the woman's health or if the health issue was just being abused to incorrectly justify a late term abortion.
I think there should be a "big" but not insurmountable barrier to killing innocent but viable humans who would survive independently of their mother if delivered by C-section. Killing little humans is pretty serious business and it is not something that should be done on a whim.
Six months gives the mother plenty of time to figure out she is pregnant and make a decision when the barrier is lower.
That is the idea that I personally prefer due to emotional factors and would live by if I were in the situation, but for legal purposes I have a problem with requiring any person to support another prior to birth.
Find out everything you need to know about poop here:
http://progressiveu.org/000701-everything-you-need-know-about-poop
I agree with you being explicit and not leaving the question what do you mean to bloggers is the write thing.Many people have discussed about abortion and the same ideas and points keep on being repeated.I find the topic very controversial but never found the right person to debate on it properly,I don't see the need of bringing a child here then it suffers all along and fine it's wrong because no one knows what tomorrow holds may be that baby is the next president after some decades, who knows??? what do you have to say??
*shiko*
I'm pro-choice. I think that no organism ever has the right to exploit another for survival if the parasitized organism doesn't consent. Therefore, I'm pro-choice, but I don't approve of abortions late in the pregnancy IF someone else is willing to provide all of the resources for the fetus's survival.
I love abortion. Read more here:
http://progressiveu.org/044921-i-love-abortion-even-if-it-murder
I love abortion too. Did you know that a woman emits some very powerful endorphins during and immediately following an abortion similar to those emitted during exercise and sex? They can be very rejuvinating and uplifting, sort of a "zing" that is hard to describe. My sister recently had an abortion and said that it was an incredibly great experience. She had her boyfriend there with their camcorder and balloons and they went out to a nice dinner afterward and made a beautiful scrapbook about it called "Sarah." People should walk a mile in other peoples' shoes before they judge. Abortion can be an elating, wonderful experience if handled correctly.
Im going to get pregnate SO I CAN GET AN ABORTION CUZ IT FEELS GOOD
do you know what your saying whether pro choice or not the reason should be better than feels good and it's a huge decision not even the ice breaker should be IT FEELS GOOD
umm just go smoke some pot... it takes less than half as long
and our we having a aborto discussion on someones blog saying Stop having an abortion discussion WOW LMFAO (literally)
...
Saint O Nothin' Says
PEACE
I'm not saying for anyone to stop having abortion discussions, I would just like to see more logical and thought out discussions instead of the same old "baby murderer, what about rape" stuff over and over again. Back up the arguments. Make them impossible to refute.
I love abortion. Read more here:
http://progressiveu.org/044921-i-love-abortion-even-if-it-murder
Yes but at the same time you get some one saying that the whole abortion could "feel pleasent even good"
come on... that's even dummer than the generic shit coming out of peoples mouthes
Saint O Nothin' Says
PEACE
Oh, I agree. I think that dude is some kind of scandal lover or something. He/She has been posting comments similar to this on other blogs as well. I think it even mentioned something about liking to be raped on someone else's blog. I just started ignoring them once I realized what was up.
Find out everything you need to know about poop here:
http://progressiveu.org/000701-everything-you-need-know-about-poop
I don't appreciate being called a scandal lover and a "dude" because of my views. If you have a valid remark to make about the discussion that's fine, but let's stop personalizing our entries against individuals. I am entitled to my opinions without attack.
Oh we are not attacking your opinions just how you present them.... You can be pro choice i have no care but when you say something stupid in respect to your opinion is when i attack what you say.
Saint O Nothin' Says
PEACE
It's funny when someone uses the plural "we" to legitimize a singular attack he or she made. Speak for yourself and not "we." Again, your statements need to pertain to the discussion, and don't personalize your attack on me. That's not my opinion. It's the rules.
fine.. let me reinstate my point. you state that an abortion may make someone feel better or even good, well this is like saying that heroine is a good thing because it can make you feel good. There are dangerous aspects to the procedure that can harm someone more than they can make someone feel better. though your point is interesting (to say the least) it should have no affect when some one is choosing whether they should have an abortion or not
Saint O Nothin' Says
PEACE
It is not against the Terms of Use to talk about a blogger. It is against them to attack them. Since no one is attacking you, there is no problem.
~C
Check out the latest entry in the Between The Lines column!
Want the highest rated list to change? RATE those blogs, then!
The terms of service state that the post should focus on the post and not the poster. Stating that "You scare me" is contrary to that term of service.
First of all, you'll notice that that comment is no longer in existence, and thus is irrelevant in this discussion.
Secondly, let me explain exactly what the Terms of Use state.
Note that no where in those terms does it say 'the post should focus on the post and not the poster". This is just the generally applied term, because most of the time when the poster is brought into the discussion, it is for a personal attack, which is against these terms of use.
Furthermore, you'll note that there are countless discussions on this site that don't have to do with the original post. Take this conversation for instance: http://www.progressiveu.org/002406-oh-im-fence#comment-265268
Now, if Teenyjonbenet has a problem with the discussion at hand, she can FLAG the comment, just like everyone else, and one of the faculty members that actually does moderating (the extent of my moderating is deleting multiple postings--like the one you just did--and spam comments) can deal with it.
~C
Check out the latest entry in the Between The Lines column!
Want the highest rated list to change? RATE those blogs, then!
Make a statement, delete it and state that "it is no longer in existence, and is thus irrelevant to this discussion." Wavy-hands magic! I love it!
It tickles me to receive fifteen paragraphs of pedantic drivel to backpeddle and make a "teaching moment" for everyone else as a smokescreen for a poorly chosen insult. It would be my suggestion that this person read the FAQs under "what is a personal attack," which leaves no question that her actions were outside of the terms of service, but Presto! Gone and nonexistent. Magic indeed.
I apoligize for mistaking your gender, however, I have seen you contradict yourself through your comments and posts. This leads me to believe that you post racy messages just to stir things up, lie for no apparent reason, or simply don't know what you actually think. I'm not attacking you. I do think that this is a valid remark about the discussion at hand, which was your very different view about abortion.
Find out everything you need to know about poop here:
http://progressiveu.org/000701-everything-you-need-know-about-poop
Let me get this straight..."racy messages just to stir things up..." on a thread titled "I love abortion." N'kay...
Ok, so I'm a big liar and a he/she. Prob'ly you might wanna? consider not following me? from one blog to another? um? stalking? and freaking me out?
You're either a he, a she, or something in between. I don't know what to refer to you as because I do not know your gender. This site is only so big, and when you post hundreds of comments per day you tend to see peoples' names more than once. If the person's comments stand out, I remember them more than others. Trust me, I wouldn't want to follow you anywhere.
Find out everything you need to know about poop here:
http://progressiveu.org/000701-everything-you-need-know-about-poop
It's amazing how many people on here have a problem with being asked to think before opening their mouths (or typing, in this case). "What? How dare you call me on my errors! You're just trying to be superior!"
T.k.
I know! I felt like I was stooping down a little just by commenting back at times, but I couldn't resist. :) I just want my blog to be full of sunshine, rainbows, and gumdrops (without food coloring, I'm allergic) instead of darkness, antirainbows, and spinach. I really didn't want the debate about abortion to even come up here, but I suppose with the A word floating around I should have known that it would be inevitable.
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Are you kidding this was a great bout of Arguments on Abortion
I followed it through out :)
i wish my blogs would get this exciting.
(the only one that i've read that did this well is called
"Faith, God's greatest paradox"
This one has an amazing ending i would highly suggest looking at it
(FUNNY)
Saint O Nothin' Says
PEACE
I think abortion is a necessary evil in our society, given that we haven't perfected birth control yet (which at this point in human history seems particularly ludicrous). until the day that all women are given FREE access to 100% infallible birth control, I will whole heartedly support each and every woman's right to choose the option that is best for her.
furthermore, I'd be interested to know what anti-choicers intend to do with the women who procure abortions - women who are so casually branded "murderers." would you send a woman to jail for terminiating an unwanted preganacy? would you send the doctors who perform the procedure there as well?
I would like to start by saying that I am: pro-life, emotional, and a Roman Catholic. You write that people, whatever they may be, need to use logic when writing about abortion. Yet, I do not see any logic in your blog. You state that abortion is murder and yet you say you love abortion. Well what if I said I know robing a bank is wrong but I am gonna do it anyway. Am I not gonna have to face some consequences regardless of what I know(that robbing a bank is wrong) or do(robing it)? One statement is true in your blog and that is: use logic. Now please follow what you say.
I think the suggestion being made is that we don't use "loaded" or biased terminology to make our points. Be scientific, it makes the arguments stronger, or reveals the flaws. Either way, we get a chance to take a better look at our points.
Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see.
When I took Journalism in high school we always had these political discussions. Since my teacher liked to talk, we did more of that than actual writing.
She claims, to this day, probably, that Obama is pro-abortion, because he believes a woman should have a choice with what to do with her body. I don't think that abortions should be used for birth control, nor am I going to use flawed logic. That's just my opinion.
Then to contradict myself, which we all frequently do, aborting an unwanted [embryo, fetus, child], isn't the worst thing you can do. All sins are weighted equal as far as I know. I would much rather see a child being taken care of, than to be brought into this world only to be abused and neglected, because their parents 'didn't even want them'.
That sounds evil, but when you see the way people abuse children, it does something to you. You can't force someone to have a child. If you do, you're responsible for that child. A few years down the road you'll be complaining about the little ______s.
That's pro-life for you.