There's a line in a popular Death Cab for Cutie song (Follow You Into the Dark) that goes "I held my tongue as she told me son 'Fear is the heart of love.' so I never went back."
That right there is ONE of my biggest problems with organized religion. (Oh, and if it's not completely obvious, I'm an atheist!) I hate the idea that we should fear God. I hate the idea that we should worship something we fear. I don't want to do something (or to avoid doing something) out of fear. When I'm scared to do something because of possible punishment, I am extremely resentful.
I'm a decent person. I pick up people's books when they drop them on the floor. I cry when I hear of another soldier's death. I don't wish for anyone to die, even people who have told me that I'm going to [nonexistent] hell. I do good deeds, but I don't do them out of fear. There are plenty of reasons I do good things. I want the world to be a better place. I want people to be happier. I want true goodness to overflow. That's why I do good things.
I am a very strange person. I knock on wood before tests and I never step on cracks because I don't want to break my mother's back (I am very resentful of this by the way!). I don't honestly believe that I'll do better because I knock on wood or that I could break my mother's back by stepping on a crack, but I do these things anyway just in case. So it follows, that I should pray and worship and do all the biblical things just in case right?
I rationalize it by saying that there's very little effort involved in knocking on wood or avoiding cracks. Following every tenet of a religion though, seems like a waste of a life to me. Worrying about going to heaven or to hell is a waste. Stopping yourself from experiencing life is the most wasteful thing of all. I think religion is shameful for trying to stop people from living. If I was to ever believe, it would be in love that I would place my faith. It would be in kindness and goodness. My faith will never be placed in fear and never be with those that try to instill in me an avoidance of life. I'm going to live and maybe tomorrow I'll stop knocking on wood. I'll do it if tomorrow you do good because you want to and not because you're too scared not to.
P.S. The Amber Spyglass (Book 3 of the His Dark Materials trilogy) should be required reading for everyone--atheist and faithful alike.
The fear of God is more of an understanding of how much He hates sin. It's like when you're little, you don't want to do bad things because you "fear" your parents. But, hopefully, you didn't want to do good deeds because you feared what would happen if you didn't.
"Fearing God" is not meant to be interpreted as being afraid, rather it is having such a reverance towards God that you want to do good things in his name.
The motive is (or should be) a reward of God's love and an eternity by His side, not fear of His wrath and punishment for not living up to His standards.
His Dark Materials Trilogy is probably one of the best things I read 2 summers ago... But I also read the Abhorsen Trilogy by Garth Nix. They were both amazing reads. It's a toss up.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/sawaboof
"...There is a crushing guilt that comes with being a Catholic. Whether things are good or bad or you're simply... eating tacos in the park, there is always the crushing guilt."
-30 Rock-
Is it similar to His Dark Materials? Because I loved those. What's Nix all about?
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman
Spirituality contains no boundaries, writings or authority, only absolute truth!
A truth only found by allowing oneself to face and step trough the eye of that needle which can free all from the illusion.
That illusion created by the one which is clouding your vision with fear, is called God!
You're not really looking at it from all points of view. I bet that you use to be Catholic, didn't you? See Christians can be one of two things, they can be religious which is like they are walking around with a stick up their nose, or they can be spiritual which is more like they can relax in the presence of God. Which is really what he wanted us to be like with him. I mean, look at the Garden of Eden. It was paradise. People were walking around naked, they weren't starving, there was nothing wrong in the world. And not only did he love us but he gave us the CHOICE to love him back with the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. And even when we forsake him he still tried to find a way to bring us back to him. Through his son. I mean could you imagine giving up your own flesh and blood for someone that could CHOOSE not to except this gift and go about their buissness. But he did that!!! How cool is that? I mean, with every other religion you have to give up something for that God but with Christianity my God gave me one of the most precious thing, he gave me a choice.
You seem to be confused.
Let me explain,
1You believe your God gave you free will.
2You also believe God created you.
3You believe he conveyed a message to your very important species.
Firstly, 1 and 2 contradict eachother, if he created you and your surroundings, he created every choice you make, a computer reacts the same every time, and you are a bio-electic computer.You have no free will if you were created, just like a program(or sequence to unfold).
Secondly, to point 3, you are 28,000 years from walking on all 4s which is proven. The universe has been in place for 13.7billion years, you are on 1 of 4 X 10 to the 28th planets. Furthermore, Anyone with the least bit of perspective, can realize its a book of rules, written with the intent to control a populous(especially of a human mind which has a hard time gripping with the fact it does not exist forever, like any scared chimp has). If this book could ever be close to credible it would have to have a single writer, trusted with the deed, and moreso the book would be so intellectually advanced that a person like me could not dictate the same thing.
Looking forward to your open minded response(ha).
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Everything, you have done, and will do, is chemically predisposed by matter, even the fact you are reading this message. You make no choices, only percieve a givin reality.
No, I was never a Catholic. My parents raised me in a pretty religiously apathetic household. I explored different religions, including Christianity and Buddhism, but not exclusively of course. However, I found I could never believe in a higher being so it was either Buddhism or atheism. Since I don't really believe Buddhism to be a religion and the two are not mutually exclusive, I could classify myself as either. I identify more with atheists, so that is how I choose to define myself.
As for what God wants, how can you claim to know this? In the bible, they say that God was a "jealous God" and it seemed as if he expected unconditional worship (see: Job). That would hardly be conducive to a "relaxed relationship". Also, God expected to be feared right? I don't think I could love anything I feared and I certainly couldn't be relaxed in fear.
I could never understand several things about religion. First of all, the story of the fall of Eve always bothered me because it seems to show that knowledge was evil or bad and Eve didn't really intend anything bad to happen. I really don't understand how a loving God could condemn anybody, and even go so far as to send them to hell.
Also, I don't understand how you can claim to be given a choice when the alternative is eternal damnation. I don't exactly think do this or die is really a choice, is it? It's not in court. Now you're not just facing death, you're facing an eternity of torture. That's not a choice. That's worse than coercion. It's like the worst possible ultimatum. That's definitely not a choice.
I don't claim to have read the whole bible, but I've read some of it and honestly, before reading it, I was much more receptive to Christianity as a religion.
Well put.. you sound like more of an agnostic than athiest tho
Athiest believe in no possibility of creation
Agnostics believe in that possibility but dont believe in magic(basically)
I'm just on this site to bash religioust putzes, fun so far :)
Everything, you have done, and will do, is chemically predisposed by matter, even the fact you are reading this message. You make no choices, only perceive a given reality.
Atheists don't believe in creation by a higher being. I don't. I don't believe a higher being exists. At all. Of course, I use watered down arguments to reason with the religious. I don't know how the universe started definitively of course, but I do not believe any God or supernatural being or sentient being had a hand in that.
So you believe out of all the matter out there our brain is the most Efficient? Highly unlikely... your species has been here(from being on all 4's) 28000 years... the Universe has been around an estimated 13.7 billion.. thats a lot of oppurtunity for other life to grow and surpass our evolution. Consider it, it would do you some good. I also do not believe in magic(supernatural) but there is a slight possiblity of chemically being created, being unopen to that is as narrow minded as believing in magic like the rest of them.
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Everything, you have done, and will do, is chemically predisposed by matter, even the fact you are reading this message. You make no choices, only perceive a given reality.
I never said our brain is the most efficient. Now you're just making assumptions and not even understanding or trying to understand. I believe there well could be life out there that's smarter or better than we are. As for being chemically created, I don't know exactly what you mean by that. I do not know how life came to be or how we came to be, I simply personally don't believe that a God created us. I can't help what I believe. I can't wake up and decide that I believe tomorrow the sky will turn purple. I'm open to the possibility, but I certainly don't believe it. As for being narrow minded, I don't think that's fair for you to call anyone narrow minded. The fact that you dismiss others like that reveals something about you really. I don't think they choose to believe in God either. I believe some may be narrow minded, but others probably just believe what they believe, coming to that conclusion after much deliberation.
1.Atheists don't believe in creation by a higher being. I don't. I don't believe a higher being exists.
I dont know how you see "higher being" but most mean its more intelligent, not just having an elevation advantage, and if you believe that there is smart life than us, and right now we can clone and create to a small degree creatures, its illogical to rule out the possibility that you are a product of such creation. Thats what people mean with higher power, a intellect above their own that created them... I do not believe in any supernatural occurance, look up supernatural in the dictionary and its near the same as meaning of fiction. I am not trying to talk down to you, I see you as an open minded person, and am just trying to point out that ruling out possibilities isn't the free minded person(atheist or agnostic way), i was just saying so you could realize athiest means you believe it impossible that you are nothing more than an accidents of chance, if thats your choice its fine, only trying to help.
2 No one sane comes to that conclusion(believing) on their own as by themself it would never occur to them, its always forced upon them, by family or society believing. it reinforces and make it right to them to adhere and concede to it(usually out of guilt or belonging), those who do deliberate it themself do so out of a life loss or insecurity, they need something to support them at times.
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Everything, you have done, and will do, is chemically predisposed by matter, even the fact you are reading this message. You make no choices, only perceive a given reality.
Need a buddy?
Always welcome!
;-)
Do like the Alex Grey art tho, I have plenty, that guys a detailing artistic genius.
Everything, you have done, and will do, is chemically predisposed by matter, even the fact you are reading this message. You make no choices, only perceive a given reality.
Alex Grey, I have none,
Well life is all about art, going it’s ways trough all we care to hold on too, we value art like our own lives because the function of art is not to be recognized, but adored for the love it contains. Some want but to destroy art because they can’t handle the emotion it contains or represents.
I love art being sold at higher meaning which exceeds our comprehension, since we can only flourish trough art as a humanity, same reason why the fight’s to have a particular piece are fought throughout an anonymous phone.
A speechless price spoken to close the deal at an auction, making us all understand that it is through art we define our future, while at the same moment live glory of past!
Art is a living memory, one “burning” we carry our hearts hoping art will surpass our own!
Everything, you have done, and will do………is still to be written by the freedom within, just like women, art rules over our spirits.
Out of inspiration to create a living memory in all mirrors we come across during our lives, women are connected to their soul, therefore they rule the inspiration of art that comes alive while only few create memories that reflect the size of the human spirit into something we regard genius.
Sometimes one chasing his way around a place can take him over the edge, making him to realize, his getting his ass whipped by all the girls, ;-)
Fortune favors the brave, who treat women like art!
Good luck,
I'm not saying that what I believe in is right or wrong. I believe that that is everyone's own personal opinion to CHOOSE for themselves. Like for me I choose to be Christian because that is what I grew up with, that is what I know. Now I haven't even read Bible all the way through so I can't say that I know everything there is to know. (then I would be like my grandmother)
Lol, a superstitious atheist, now that is something new to me.
You, haha, I knew you would show up! Any confusion?
Lol, hey when it has to do with religion, I am always down for a party. I'm not surprised to see you here either, haha. Nope, no confusion except at a superstitious atheist just because I've never heard of an atheist who is superstitious.