Yesterday, I attended a lecture given by Lalo Alcaraz, cartoonist (La Cucaracha) and satirist. He talked a lot about his comics, which deal largely with Latino social issues, stereotypes, and immigration policies. At first, I was unsure about whether I'd like the lecture, but once he got started speaking, I was really drawn in.
Alcaraz basically takes important issues and turns them into something funny (not boring). So, while I was attending a really amusing lecture about comics, I was also attending a lecture relating to important issues of today.
Illegal immigration is a big problem today, especially in the areas around the US-Mexican border. Some people (like Alcaraz) say that "illegal" immigration isn't really illegal, and it's sanctioned by many government offices who allow undocumented immigrants to work the jobs American workers don't want. In fact, the first casualty in Iraq was an undocumented immigrant. Also, he says that most recent Latino immigrants were, at one point, undocumented and hence illegal.
His comments make a lot of sense. I do, however, wonder about taxes. Are undocumented immigrants taxed? I'd always thought the answer was a clear "no" -- how do you tax someone not on the records? However, through some pretty quick research, I found on this website that undocumented immigrants DO pay taxes. This would suggest that, although the government is quick to propose legislation against illegal immigration, they don't disapprove of it enough to force these tax-paying illegal immigrants out. Why would they do this? Simple -- they get the tax money without having to provide any of the social safety nets citizens get (welfare, medicaid, etc.), as illegal immigrants are not eligible for these benefits.
I do think that, despite these truths, there should be laws requiring all undocumented immigrants to become citizens, or at least to become permanent resident aliens. This is for a few reasons. First, it would help the immigrants by allowing them full rights and privileges, like medicaid and welfare. Second, it would help the government to find the immigrants if they should happen to commit crimes, just like regular citizens.
I know that it's difficult to obtain citizenship and come here legally, and that often it's denied. I don't approve of coming here illegally except in the case of refugees from countries like Cuba with dictators in power. I don't think Mexico quite has that status, as most people who come here do it for financial opportunities, which is fine if you do it legally. My reasoning behind this is that most Americans come from immigrant families (with the exception of Native Americans). Most of the families got here legally (I know my family came in the 1880's for financial opportunities), and I think of it as an insult to the spirit of the country to cut corners and cheat to get in. I realize that there are many different viewpoints on this, and that mine is decidedly more conservative than a lot of people my age, but I can't change my belief system simply because everyone else thinks a certain way. I welcome any comments about Alcaraz or immigration.
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He has claimed that Hispanics fought in the American revolutionary war, which is a lie. It is true that Spain and the Spanish governments in place in what is now called South America and other Spanish controlled colonies, sought to sell goods to the Americans, and sneak through the British blcckade, and that some were caught, it doesn't equate to fighting in the American revolutionary war. Profiteers are not the same thing as troops. It's also true that Spain is a historical enemy of England.
There were actually French officers and troops that fought in the revolutionary war, but that does not mean that the French government and it's citizens have a free pass to violate US law. He also claims that the uniforms of revolutionary war soldiers were made in Aztlan, but as Native American scholars have exposed, there is no Aztlan. It's a myth by the racist Hispanic apologists who also pretend that their racist forebears who committed genocide against the indigenous peoples of what is now called Mexico, Central and South America, like to pretend instead that the conquistadores lived in peace and justice with those indigenous peoples. Of course, the catholic church were also involved in the genocide, and supported the acts of the Spanish crown and their brutal, nazi-esque thug conquistadores.
Then again the catholic church also rationalized African slavery and Hitler, so we shouldn't be surprised. The church has also been silent on the oppressive treatment of the Hispanic governments south of the border, and on the repressive outsourcing of US jobs and the pushing of American citizens into oppressive poverty, because they sought to profit from it.
His comic strip was removed from the LA Times, because he was actively promoting racism against black and white American citizens, Alcarez also ridiculed the rounding up o illegal alien gang bangers who were behind the attempts to ethnically cleanse African Americans out of Los Angeles neighborhoods, like Highland Park.
"Alcarez also ridiculed the rounding up o illegal alien gang bangers..."
I actually get the idea from him that he ridicules everything. It's just the way he is. I don't think you're supposed to take a lot of what he says literally. The issues behind what he says are important, but the way he presents them is a satirical view, and it's funny because of that. Also, his strip was removed from the LA Times...but in less than 2 full days, it was put back in.
The point is, he is someone who wants you to ignore the realities of imposing dire poverty upon American citizen workers, pretending to the lie of Mexican, etc.. poverty is not someone who should be selected as a speaker on the subject of immigration.
It's like rationalizing the grand wizard of the KKK being selected to give a speech on equality, there is a bias based on hatred and the desire to oppress. Americans do not do that, but racist, Hispanic supremecists do.
I'm not surprised the Times took him back, they've started recently purging decent democratic journalists who exposed the ethnic cleansing of blacks in Los Angeles,and the fact that the mayor was violating his oath of office by using his sexual affair with a member of the Hispanic media to promote his own racist agenda.
The US does not have a worker shortage,, what you are rationalizing is the perpetuation of the conditions south of the border that impose poverty and a denial of rights to the citizens of those countries, and the imposition of fascism and corporate control in the US. You are either a water carrier for fascism, or too ignorant to think beyond what you wish to profit from. It's apparent that you aren't just a student who was impressed by a speech.
Murdering innocent African American citizens, just because they moved into a neighborhood isn't something you make excuses for, but your racist cartoonist and the racist mayor of Los Angeles does.
JennyP,
When you see a word underlined in red, it means that it is spelled incorrectly.
Isn't it curious that the same mob that cries "English only" can't even write properly in English?
Mongo
www.itsnofun.com
He was actually not here specifically for immigration. He was here for Hispanic Heritage Month, and he happened to bring up the issue when he showed the comics that related to it. I also sat and talked with him after, and in his conversation with me, he didn't seem the least bit racist. In fact, he promotes diversity and encourages everyone to be successful and involved in politics. I don't know anything about the mayor of LA, but I'm certainly not ignorant or a "water carrier for fascism". My feelings that immigration should be encouraged legally (and if you read the whole thing, it does indeed say that I support LEGAL immigration) do not make me a fascist. I care about the American people, but I also realize that America was built on immigrants. I also did not say America had a worker shortage. I'm aware that we have a job shortage. But at the same time, how many Americans are willing to work the jobs no one wants, like being an underpaid, overworked janitor? Before making sweeping generalizations about my opinions and their source, you should really read what I wrote more carefully.
One more thing: before you call everyone else racist, you should perhaps look at your own comments, which seem to devalue Hispanics and anyone who isn't concerned only with African Americans.
JennyP,
You lie and mistate so much, that it is difficult to keep up.
-Spain helped the USA independence (an in the ensuing wars with England) all she could, short of formal declaration of war against England . The Spanish empire as a whole, as a matter of policy, not just private profiteers. That you say otherwise so vehemently tells me that you never grabbed a history book in your life.
-The Spaniards did mistreat the aboriginal population in America, and they did use evangelization as a shameful excuse for the "encomienda" system of forced labor. To jump from there to the statement that the Catholic church sanctioned the abuse, tells me more about you that about the Catholics.
Do me a favor, Google for "Bartolomé de las Casas".
(And in any case, the fate of Native Americans in the rest of the continent was 1,000 times better than the ones on the British-colonized territories).
-Please explain me how, in your sick mind, the Catholic church is a silent accomplice of the enslavement of American citizens. As Spain declined as a naval power, she had to sell the "asiento" or the profitable right to trade slaves from Africa to England.
-Please explain me how the Catholic church is a silent accomplice of the outsourcing of American jobs abroad.
On second thought ... no, don't explain me anything. You have the intellectual level of a 4 year-old. It is scary that people like you vote, though.
Please don't waste people's time with your anti-Hispanic, anti-Catholic, anti-all ranting.
Mongo
www.itsnofun.com
Mongo, I am Native American, I know the history of my fellow native peoples. Do not dare to promote Spanish attempts at revisionism, lies concocted to diminish the genocide they are guilty of. They were wholesale murderers, rapists, enslavers of innocents. They brought the African slave trade to Europe and across the Atlantic. No more lies to profit the Spanish lust for blood and power, no more. Never again! I am catholic, by the way, so don't play your games with me. It's well known that the catholic church fattens itself on investments, in oil, in corporate interests, in property, in keeping poor people poor. In stifling their lifting themselves up out of poverty where they might think for themselves and question the hypocrisy of church leaders, not Christ, but of the sins of so called men of the cloth.
– Pedro de Cieza de León (c. 1550, Crónica del Peru, Primera Parte, 2.66)
No sooner had the Americas been discovered than Alexander VI, the notorious Spanish Borgia Pope, divided all "heathen lands" from pole to pole between the Christian kingdoms of Spain and Portugal. The Papal Bull Inter Caetera, issued on May 4 1493, charged his Castilian cronies with a special mission:
" Moreover we command you in virtue of holy obedience that, employing all due diligence in the premises, as you also promise – nor do we doubt your compliance therein in accordance with your loyalty and royal greatness of spirit – you should appoint to the aforesaid mainlands and islands worthy, God-fearing, learned, skilled, and experienced men, in order to instruct the aforesaid inhabitants and residents in the Catholic faith and train them in good morals. "
A year later (1494) the Treaty of Tordesillas placated a disgruntled Portugal by moving the demarcation line further west, rewarding Portugal with Brazil. But in 1580 Philip II of Spain also became king of Portugal, making the papal global carve-up somewhat academic and Spanish claims to the Americas total. No other nation had a permanent settlement on the shores of the New World to contest the claim.
Ignorant of such distant power broking were perhaps a hundred million indigenous natives of the Americas, blissfully unaware of the unholy crusade about to brutally sweep away their world forever. Across the ocean the cohorts of Christ, having reduced Europe by the carnage of religious warfare, were about to dip their hands in blood in a New World.
The Indies: Spanish/Catholic enthusiasm for "Enjoyment"
"Your Highnesses will win these lands, which are an Other World, and where Christianity will have so much enjoyment, and our faith in time so great an increase."
– Colombus to his patrons Ferdinand and Isabella, 1498 (Morrison, et al, p22)
1492 Colombus lands on the island of Hispaniola in the Indies. He trades glass beads for gold and leaves a small settlement.
1493 Colombus's second fleet of 17 ships reconnoiters Jamaica and southern Cuba.
1498 Colombus, with colonists emptied from Spanish prisons, makes landfall at Trinidad. The Hispaniola colony is relocated on the south coast at San Domingo by his brother Bartholomew.
1514 Panfilo de Narvaez conquers Cuba. The priest Bartolomeo de las Casas records a catalogue of Spanish torture and barbarity.
1500-1520 Conquest of Greater Antilles is complete.
Within a generation the Caribs and Arawaks, a native population of perhaps 250,000, forced into slave labour in the gold mines, were virtually wiped out. To take their place, beginning in 1510, slaves were brought in from Guinea in West Africa. But disappointment with the lack of gold prompted the Spanish to introduce sugar cultivation. Harsh, labour-intensive plantation agriculture, pioneered by the Portuguese in Sâo Tomé, was now established in the Americas. The conquistadors themselves, warriors not farmers, moved on, to cause ever greater ruin.
Slash and Burn
Having exhausted the Caribbean Islands of a limited quantity of pearls and gold and eradicated the entire native population, the Spanish conquistadors assaulted the mainland.
In their wake, the islands of the Indies were left to be exploited by a colonial elite. Plantations were worked by brutalised slaves imported from African. The sugar crop was sold in European markets.
English colonies copied Spanish plantation-style agriculture, first in the Lesser Antilles and then in Virginia.
Destruction
"Pizarro replied that they had come ... to let them know that the idols they worshipped were false, and that to save their souls they had to become Christians and believe in the God the Spanish worshipped."
– (Michael Wood, p120)
Terror tactics compensated for the small numbers of conquistadors.
Shock and Awe
Cholula pyramid, now sporting a Catholic church on the platform that once held an
Aztec temple.
Cholula, with a population of 100,000, was the second city of the Aztec empire. It had thrived for more than a millennium.
In 1519, Cortés chose Cholula to demonstrate his Christian credentials. He massacred several thousand unarmed members of the Aztec nobility in the central plaza and then burned down much of the city.
What a guy!
Weapons of Mass Destruction
The arquebus – a primitive, bulky gun – and the crossbow were more than sufficient to terrorize the lightly armed American aboriginals.
Thrown to the Dogs
War dogs provided an especially frightening tool of war. Greyhounds and mastiffs were used most commonly, kitted out in their own quilted armour. The dogs were often trained to attack their victims in the abdomen and genitals. They were fed human body parts to encourage their killer instinct.
Germ warfare
Aztec doctor confounded by unknown disease (Florentine codex, c 1570)
Smallpox was especially catastrophic for the natives of the Americas.
The smallpox pandemic began in Hispaniola in December 1518. It spread to Mexico in 1520, along the Caribbean coast 1525-7, and reached Peru by 1527. The following year Wayna Capac, "Unique Inca" and paternalistic ruler of his bronze age empire, dies of the pox.
Cultural Genocide
The first thing Catholic priests did upon discovering Mayan and Aztec books was to burn them. The priests declared that the codices were "written by the devil."
The Church took over Indian "re-education", with different monastic orders colonizing specific localities. The orders offered ambitious young men a colonial career whilst maintaining a semblance of "mission" and civilization.
"Eradication of idolatry" meant the wholesale destruction of entire cultures.
Pity about the genocide.
Central America: The Lure of Gold
1502 - 1504 On his fourth voyage Colombus explores the Central American coastline and encounters Maya traders at Bay Island in the Gulf of Honduras. In 1508 the first two Spaniards go ashore in Yucatan. In 1507 "America" appears on European maps for the first time.
1510 A settlement is established on the isthmus of Panama. In 1511 several shipwrecked sailors are taken prisoner by the Maya. In 1513 Balboa crosses the isthmus of Panama and reaches the Pacific.
1517 From Cuba, Francisco Hernandez de Cordoba explores the Yucatan coast. The following year Juan de Grijalua explores the coast of Mexico.
1519 From Cuba, Hernan Cortés lands at Veracruz. He rejects envoys with gifts from Moctezuma II and advances on the high plateau of Tlaxcala. At Cholula CortÈs massacres the local chiefs. With the help of native allies Cortes reaches Tenochtitlán and takes Moctezuma hostage. Cortes wrecks the great pyramid before withdrawing.
1521 After a 93-day siege Cortes takes and destroys Tenochtitlán.
1528 Francisco de Montejo lands in Yucatan. He wages a 14-year struggle with the Maya before establishing his capital at Merida.
1542 Pedro de Alvarado takes the Mayan kingdoms of Cakchiquel and Quiche.
1543 Spain institutes annual treasure convoys.
1697 Martin de Ursua inflicts final defeat of Maya at Tayasal.
South America: Peruvian empire for pious gangsters
1526 Francisco Pizarro, already enriched by slave-holdings in Panama, leads mercenaries into Colombia. Their terror tactics are unflinchingly cruel but to little avail and the expedition has to be rescued.
1529 Charles V of Spain grants a licence to Pizarro to "discover and conquer Peru." When the invasion begins in 1532 the Inca empire, weakened by disease, is also wracked by civil war. The "Unique Inca" Atahuallpa is captured, forcibly baptized and garrotted.
1535 The Pizarro brothers establish a coastal capital of Lima and begin shipping gold back to Spain. Rivalry with fellow Spaniard Almagro leads Pizarro to execute his former companion. Almagro's son takes his revenge by murdering Pizarro.
1536 Great Inca revolt is followed by resistance in Vilcabamba until 1572 when the last Inca, Tupac Amoru, is captured and executed.
Enslavement: "Slavery is God's mercy" says Christian saint
"Because of the sin of the first man, the penalty of servitude was inflicted by God on the human race; to those unsuitable for liberty he has mercifully accorded servitude."
Saint Isidore of Seville
(Pierre Bonnassie, From Slavery to Feudalism in South-western Europe, 1991, p57)
The system of 'encomienda' gave Spanish settlers the right to an Indian's labour in exchange for his "care and religious instruction."
Thus, conversion to Catholicism went hand-in-hand with enslavement and early death.
The conquistadors and their descendants used up the indigenous people as slave labour in the gold mines of Mexico and the silver mines of Peru. As a result, the plantations of the Spanish/Portuguese empires had to import of six and a half million African slaves. As many again were required in other parts of the Americas. (For numbers see Thomas, p805).
Genocide
Estimates of the pre-Colombian population of the Americas vary but possibly stood at 100 million – one fifth of humanity in 1492. Unlike the Hollywood myth, most lived in towns and villages and were not nomadic hunters. Between 1500 and 1600 population of the Americas halved.
"Within decades of Colombus's landfall, most of these people were dead and their world barbarously sacked by Europeans." – R. Wright (Stolen Continents, p4)
Regret? Death bed remorse
"We found those realms in such good order that there was not a thief or a vicious man, nor an adulteress, nor were they an immoral people, being content and honest in their labour...
We have destroyed by our evil behaviour such a government as was enjoyed by these natives... Owing to the bad example we have set them in all things, that these natives from doing no evil have turned into people who can do no good...
There is no more I can do to alleviate these injustices than by my words ... in which I beg God to pardon me..."
Masio Serra de Leguizamon
Last of the Conquistadors
Cuzco, 18 September 1589
Voice of the Dead
"You tell me then that I must perish
like the flowers that I cherish.
Nothing remaining of my name,
nothing remembered of my fame?
But the gardens I planted still are young –
The songs I sang will still be sung!"
Huexotzin, Prince of Texcoco, c 1484
(G. Jennings, Aztec)
Jack the Nimble, my Latin American cousin and his fiery sword.
I missed your attempts to defend the indefensible.
What is the target of your anger today? Let's see ... Oh, the Spaniards and the Catholic Church!
So it is no more the Black People, whom you consider genetically inferior according to your earlier posts?
Mongo
www.itsnofun.com
Most undocumented immigrants apply for an ITIN (taxpayer identification number) and pay income taxes.
They have Social Security and Medicare deducted from their salary (even though they are not eligible for any of those benefits), that's why Social Security receivea a boon of 7 billion dollars /year and Medicare 1.5 billion dollars a year.
As for sales and property tax, those are unavoidable for undocumented immigrants like for anybody else.
Mongo
www.itsnofun.com
Yeah, I did my research and found that sort of thing out. I do, however, believe that they should become legal citizens. They'd be better off since they're paying taxes anyway. Might as well get the benefits of what they're paying for.
ITIN numbers are for foreign nationals who earn money in the US, those who use them also do not pay social security or other similar taxes that pay in to programs worker's can collect from.
The ITIN does not provide permission to work in the US, nor is it identification. It's meant for legal immigrants, who are not citizens and for visa workers, they aren't for illegal aliens. When they obtain them, they are violating the law, because they are misrepresenting their status.
Most illegal aliens are not using ITIN numbers, they use fraudulent green cards, social security cards, identity theft and other forged documents. Many work under the table and pay no tax. It's also a fact that through the usage of forged documents illegals are collecting welfare food stamps housing subsidies and medicaid that they are not legally entitled to. The low wage jobs they do, when they aren't under the table are not taxed heavily at all. So no, they are not paying a great deal into the tax base, what's more, they weren't asked to come here, they broke the law and took jobs from American citizens and legal immigrants. The costs associated with illegals are in the billions of dollars, they are not contributing much into our system, they are in fact bleeding money out of our economy and hurting American citizens and legal immigrants.
They cause expense to those whose identities are stolen. So sorry, your lies don't hold water.
JennyP,
First of all, the only liar here is you.
Second, make up your mind. Do illegals use or not use an ITIN?
Notice that even by your own admission, they are paying taxes whose benefits they can't collect. Do they contribute 8.5 billion a year to the SSA and Medicare YES or NO? it is a very simple question.
And you know most undocumented people don't pay taxes because ....? See, that you dodge taxes doesn't mean that real working people also do.
Did an immigrant steal any job from you? Have you worked a day of your life on any of those jobs they are "taking away" from you?
Just because you are a trailer-trash welfare queen, it doesn't mean that undocumented people are all like you.
Stop lying, JennyP, or at least try to do it more elegantly.
Mongo
www.itsnofun.com
And no, Mongo the liar here is YOU.
The US is a sovreign nation, the citizens of this country are the rulers, not criminal illegal ailens, nor the leaders of foreign countries, not even our president and congress, the power is in the hands of the people.
Illegal aliens are stealing the jobs of American citizens, in the millions. The truth is all around us. They and you find the truth inconvenient, but it doesn't change the fact. Virtually every US citizen knows someone, a friend, or family member who has lost their jobs, their homes, their ability to earn a living because of illegal aliens. They know people or have seen in their own communities who have been murdered, raped, stolen from, by illegal aliens.
Illegal aliens for the most part are paid under the table, and DO NOT pay taxes. Some do steal ssn's and work under other people's identities, like that putan Elvira Arellano. costing an innocent citizen money to deal with the bill from what is a felony act. Others use forged document, another felony, some of them use ITIN's, and perhaps some use their, in many cases sham matricular cards and get ITIN's, but it doesn't change the fact that illegals steal jobs by taking 50% or lower wages, which means in the cases they are commiting felonies with forged and stolen documents, they are also commiting a federal felony crime by using an ITIN number, but they are also barely paying anything in taxes. It's also been found out that they are commiting welfare fraud, foodstamp fraud, housing subsidy fraud and medicaid fraud. They fill our prisons iwth their crimes, rapes and murders, they over burden our schools and hospitals destroyng public programs. Preventing deserving citizens from benefiting from what they have paid for. In Los Angeles illegal aliens cost 1 billion dollars per year.
That figure of 8 point whatever billion in taxes by illegals is a lie. The GAO stated that the number was hot air put forward as a lie by the administration as a smokescreen to rationalize amnesty.
They have broken our laws, and no matter what some corrupt corporate interest or crooked politician says, they are all criminals. The US is in a time of declining jobs, we don't have jobs Americans won't do.
I'm not, and nor have I ever collected welfare, the trailer trash is you, whether you live in one or not. You are a fascistic bully who looks down at the free people of the US and frothes at the mouth in frustration because you can't enslave them.
In fact, I am a native American, one of the indigenous peoples who knows and speaks the truth about the illegal aliens and their history of genocide, rape and murder. They do not own this land, they don't even have a legit claim to their home countries because they stole them, and make a pigsty out of them. They respect nothing other than brutality, and oppression. They rely on lies because they are afraid of the truth. It's why they scream and carry on hystercally when you stand up to them and speak truth.
The majority of Americans and we are black, brown and white, laugh at you. You're pathetic and you will not get your way, fascist. We'd die before we let it happen, that's the thing about citizens of the US, we have courage and aren't afraid of a fight, even against cowards like you.
I have seen lame attempts at formulating an argument against undocumented work by pushing from the left, but yours is so far the most senseless, ranting, unarticulated one I've ever seen.
Yeah, I am frothing at the mouth because I can't enslave you ...
Damn, I knew something was missing with breakfast this morning!
Mongo
www.itsnofun.com
Illegal aliens do not steal jobs from Americans, they take the ones that we refuse to take. Your derrogatory comments toward Mongo are terribly appalling at best. Your figures are horribly misconstrued- illegal aliens do not "fill our prisons", legal Americans handle that task quite well. Illegals are here to help themselves and their families- they will not try to get themselves thrown in jail, because that completely defeats the purpose of their migration here. Accusing other posters of fascist tendencies is dreadfully innacurate- your views are more closely aligned with fascism than theirs. You say that illegals "steal" jobs by taking 50% of normal wages. For God's sake!! Would you work for 50% less wages, and if you ran a company wouldn't you rather pay someone $13,000 a year than $26,000 a year? Your answers to these questions are most likely no and yes, in that order- typical of today's greedy Americans. By applying your logic of how the illegals "use" the system, couldn't you be seen as a threat to society? Due to your Native American heritage, you can get grants and free money no one else can. Does that make you a terrible thief and misuser of the American system? It shouldn't. Your views are inconsistent, and you are writing from an emotionally driven perspective rather than actually trying to intelligently refute others' claims. For more room to spew your insane comments agianst illegal immigration, go to my blog and read "STOP SPEAKING ENGLISH!!!!". This will give you a different viewpoint, and hopefully show you that immigrants are an asset to our country.
An illegal alien (undocumented is a PC euphemism, nor are they immigrants, they are foreign nationals who have violated federal immigration laws) can not legally obtain an ITIN number. Those who do, have used forged or stolen documents to obtain an ITIN.
Those who do work low wage jobs, and do not pay much in taxes, but they exploit and use services in numbers that far exceed the minor contributions they make. Even worse, while they gain jobs here illegally, by working for less, they demand welfare and other social welfare benefits to compensate for the lower wages they make. So the taxpayers who are denied those jobs at Amerian wages are forced to make up the difference so illegals are in a sense getting paid higher wages than American citizens, though American citizens are the ones picking up the tab to make up the difference.
Our system is overburdened and not being supported to the extent it would be were American citizens doing the jobs that they have always done. Higher paid Americans spend their wages in their communties, creating more jobs for their fellow Americans. American young people obtain jobs that lift them out of poverty, and allow them to contribute to society through taxes, buying homes, etc... An American workforce doesn't burden society with excessive welfare demands, which allows taxes to lower.
Our roads and bridges and other infastructure crumbles, our hospitals close, waits at hospitals takes longer. MRSA, which came across our southern border (antibiotic resistant staph is documented as originating in Latin America because of substandard hygeine practices), through the southwest and across the country with illegal aliens who started working in housekeeping and janiotorial jobs in nursing homes and hospitals in poor urban areas starting in the late '70s, and is now present even in our schools. Two young African American boys died within the past week because of this. MRSA kills more Americans than aids.
Our resources are overburdened because illegals would prefer to bleed our nation dry rather than work hard to bring about change in their own countries. They are more interested in destroying opportunities for better lives, than in actually achieving better lives for themselves. Hatred and prejudice is a part of their culture.
If illegal entrants in the USA are "undocumented workers" then drug pushers are unlicensed pharmacists. Those of you who defend illegal immigrants are out to destroy the USA. The bad news is there are more of you than is good for the country. The good news , after coming here for the first time today, I find the pro-illegal immigration advocates are not particularly intelligent in their defense of the subject. Selfish, emotional arguments prevail on your part. The majority of blogs in this thread are clearly by the pros. This person, "mongo" , appears to be the most hate-filled pro-agandist among you. I fear that America will lose because of the apathy and laziness on their part. Anyone who will not fight for his freedom deserves to lose it.
This is my country as much as any other American's. No one has the right to give it away without the permission of the majority of the rest. That does not exist. 76% of Americans are opposed to illegal immigration. The interests of big (and some small) businesses have been placed paramount to the well-being of the world's greatest republic. I am an older person and probably will not live to see it, but I predict another revolution and civil war in America. Hopefully those who believe in and uphold the Constitution and the design of our founding fathers will prevail.
The governments of Latin America are essentially corrupt. It is a way of life that has prevailed since history has been recorded. Mexico is fraught with drugs, corruption, uncontrolled police , and a large Hidalgo group that sends their uneducated poor to America. They do nothing to enrich the poor of Mexico. Rather they send them north to earn pesos to add to the coffers of Mexico.
Fix Mexico at home.
milootoole,
Thank you for your valuable feedback.
A Tancredo team will contact you soon, and you can work together on your plans for another "Night of Broken Glasses" to save this nation.
Mongo
www.itsnofun.com
Tom is a great American.
Which country are you talking about Mongo??? MIne , the USA, or yours, Mexico??
Are you paid to spend your days spreading your bull****? Or are you happy you are here illegally and just want to bring a couple of hundred more??? How do you find time to post if you are doing one of the jobs I will not do?? MALDEF, LA Raza supported????
I am to the right of Tom Tancredo, if by some stretch of imagination you are an American citizen, I would deport you. An illegal immigrant, for the most part, is here to earn money because the corrupt government of Mexico and other Latin American countries do not provide good opportunities to make as much money. They are trying to improve their lot. But Americans who aid, abet and support these violations of American laws should be exiled, or possibly jailed as traitors. Why don't you go to Guatemala, Honduras or Mexico and help the people to make their countries better???
You are all spit and no substance.
Have a nice day!!!!!!
milootoole,
Thank you for your substantial, coherent response.
You have a nice day too, if that is at all possible.
Mongo
www.itsnofun.com
You did surprise me with that reference-- I had thought that the people invading my country were mostly Latin Americans. Now I know they are Jewish--I guess that is what your reference is trying to indicate. The only problem I have with that is ---how do we control the hordes of Israelis who are stealing into my, (I am not sure ours is appropriate), country and working off the books and at low wages?
Wait, I know, let's go to Israel, stimulate the economy, tell their Hidalgos to create more jobs and more opportunities for their people. Yaeh, Yeah, that might work. Maybe we could also encourage them to stop their bigotry against the shorter, darker members of their country. Think that would work????
Buenos dios!
milootoole,
Keep at it, you are doing great.
Mongo
www.itsnofun.com
Thank you--I know I am doing great--by comparison.
Thanks for the encouragement. I would like to say,"Welcome to my country", but I would only do that if I thought you were here legally and not a paid provocateur. It seems you are here to attack Jennp and others who love America and belong here in this country.
Are you in Mexico City???? How is the weather?? It is rather cool here!
Dear Vicodine-Brigade Corporal milotoole,
How sad are you, trying to fill your finest hour with a sense of usefulness.
When the choice was going fishing or start being a "patriot" and attacking a defenseless constituency, you chose the latter.
But just so that I am not accused of not trying to find a common ground here, help me understand you: It is my firm conviction that anybody who thinks Tancredo is a "great man" is either evil or an idiot. Which one is your case?
Mongo
www.itsnofun.com
I am neither an idiot nor an evil man. I am a patriot, as you called me. I detest people who would weaken and destroy MY country. My compliments on your vocabulary, considering English is your second language. I admit it appears superior to some Americans use.
That said, I feel I am in a discourse with an intelligent man.(Or whatever you are.). Therefore, it follows, using your choices that you must be evil. Well, no surprise there, that was easy to detect when I first came to this site and saw you attacking another blogger.
May I suggest, since you are not of MY country that your opinions about America have no value. Also , since your patron saint Eliott Spitzer was prevented from giving you and your prolific ilk access to drivers' licenses I would imagine you have more important things to do than to spend your time and anti-American voice on me.
Adios podidro hombre o mujer o gilipollas --whichever.
PS I am now a sergeant because of my ability to detect anti -american gilipollas on the internet. If you maintain contact, you may get me promoted all the way up the line.
Gracias traidor!
Dear Private Miacil,
Your answers, though repetitive, are interesting in the way that they always assume the following two (false) premises:
- because of your being born here, you are a depositary of the definition of what Americanism means.
- because of my being an undocumented immigrant, my mere presence is "weakening" this country.
Conclusion of those two weird premises are that illegal immigrants don't have any right whatsoever, and that any action taken in order to harden their lives is beneficial to the country (moreover, "patriotic").
Please review your assumptions, and while you are at it, correct the equivocated idea you have about your own importance. A "patriot" is a person who fights for an idea of a country against overwhelming odds. Mel Gibson carrying a musket comes to mind. A geezer soiling his monitor every time he kills time doing some Mexican-bashing doesn't.
So, now that we got this ridiculous notion that you are a "patriot" out of the way, I am back to my original question. Evil or stupid?
Mongo
www.itsnofun.com
PS: please stop butchering my language
Dear Private Miacil,
Your answers, though repetitive, are interesting in the way that they always assume the following two (false) premises:
- because of your being born here, you are a depositary of the definition of what Americanism means.
- because of my being an undocumented immigrant, my mere presence is "weakening" this country.
Conclusion of those two weird premises are that illegal immigrants don't have any right whatsoever, and that any action taken in order to harden their lives is beneficial to the country (moreover, "patriotic").
Please review your assumptions, and while you are at it, correct the equivocated idea you have about your own importance. A "patriot" is a person who fights for an idea of a country against overwhelming odds. Mel Gibson carrying a musket comes to mind. A geezer soiling his monitor every time he kills time doing some Mexican-bashing doesn't.
So, now that we got this ridiculous notion that you are a "patriot" out of the way, I am back to my original question. Evil or stupid?
Mongo
www.itsnofun.com
PS: please stop butchering my language
Dear Private Miacil,
Your answers, though repetitive, are interesting in the way that they always assume the following two (false) premises:
- because of your being born here, you are a depositary of the definition of what Americanism means.
- because of my being an undocumented immigrant, my mere presence is "weakening" this country.
Conclusion of those two weird premises are that illegal immigrants don't have any right whatsoever, and that any action taken in order to harden their lives is beneficial to the country (moreover, "patriotic").
Please review your assumptions, and while you are at it, correct the equivocated idea you have about your own importance. A "patriot" is a person who fights for an idea of a country against overwhelming odds. Mel Gibson carrying a musket comes to mind. A geezer soiling his monitor every time he kills time doing some Mexican-bashing doesn't.
So, now that we got this ridiculous notion that you are a "patriot" out of the way, I am back to my original question. Evil or stupid?
Mongo
www.itsnofun.com
PS: please stop butchering my language
I am fighting against overwhelming odds--and I fight for the sovereignty of the USA against others coming into the country, draining th resiources and demanding rights to which they are not entitled.
I am a depositary (sic), (I assume you meant depository, momgo---lloyd), of a large amount of information pertaining to the United States and vermin like you whio steal in, steal and corrupt all that you touch. I do not "Mexican bash". The Mexicans are about 45-47% of those who come here. I do plead guilty to Illegal Immigrant bashing. You are criminals!!!!!!!If I see you, I call ICE. I have been somewhat successful in spite of the apathetic efforts of the Federal government.
I may soil my monitor--I am far from a geezer---but I suspect you soiled tour underpants as you sneaked and and eacxh time you hear "INS" or "ICE"
Tata---Pancho
BTW --what's your personal rape count???????
You are not a patriot. You are not suffering any of the exertions that define a patriotic effort.
You are an evil person who cowardly attacks a defenseless collective, under the guise of a very sui generis definition of patriotism.
I am still flabbergasted by how normal Americans let people like you hijack their patriotic vocabulary (Minutemen, etc).
I am not a criminal, I committed a civil offense. What leads you to believe (aside from your hate) that you can erect yourself in my moral arbiter?
By the way, thank you for stopping your poor attempts towards Spanish. Now try your own language and look "depositary" up.
What is a "rape count"?
Mongo
www.itsnofun.com
I may be in total disagreement with your arrogant, insulting attitude about your rights in my country, but I remain an honest man. I apologize to you for the criticism re: your spelling and I admit that part of my nastiness was based on the fact that English is not your first language. I re-read your earllier post and you are absolutely correct about the spelling and the use of the word "Depositary". You have my apology. Now , get the hell out of my country. Go back to Guatemala or wherever your native country is. Then get in line and come here legally.
Your "defenseless collective", (actually you sound like a student in a very left leaning college), is destroying my country. Your use of the term is an effort to diminish that fact that they are lawbreakers. My countrymen are fed up and we are now forcing our politicians to uphold our laws.I uphold and live by the laws of the United States, so too should everyone else. The casual argument that yours is a civil offense is arrogant .
"Sneaking across the border is currently a criminal misdemeanor that can result in six months in prison. Immigration legislation passed by the U.S. House in December would make it a felony to live in the United States without authorization."
This past weekend I marched in a protest against The SPP and the NAU. I served in the US military in time of war.
Patriotism is love and support and icludes defense of one's country. My patriotism is far from unique and the numbers of Americans waking to your invasion increase daily. The sheriff of my county works closely with ICE and is arresting your ilk, and then ICE is deporting them.
My use of words was poor again when I asked about your "personal rape count". To phrase my question more accurately, "What is the number of crimes you are willing to accept that are committed by illegal immigrants before America is no longer going to stand it and will fight back??? ". My number id down to none. We have suffered too much at your hands already.
Maricopa County?
Mongo
www.itsnofun.com
I said in my last post that we citizens of the United States Of America have suffered too much at the hands of you and your ilk already. You do not belong here. You steal from me and my family. Most of you bring tolerance of corruption. This is perhaps the worst disease you visit upon us. No country is pure, but by comparison to most Latin American countries, the USA is sin free. It is in your culture. One has to wonder why an apparently learned and intelligent person like you does not stay in his own country and help to improve it and the lot of your fellow citizens. I can tell you why, it stands out for all here to see. Your very own culture has you steal from the United States instead of doing the right thing. It is easier to steal. (Civil, criminal--It is also easy to rationalize when you are a lawbreaker.)
I see it in many other posts and I do not hesitate to use it myself--WHAT IS IT ABOUT ILLEGAL THAT YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND?
PS
I also have a suspicion that you are a paid provocateur. MALDEF??>? LA RAZA??
I do not care to argue any longer with you. I feel I am aiding and abetting an illegal when I do so.
Was that a "yes"?
Mongo
www.itsnofun.com
noyb means none of your business. It is none of your business.
but Private Aspirin, you were salivating about how your sheriff was the Scourge of God against the undocumented. I think it's a valid question. Pleeeeeeeease?
Mongo
www.itsnofun.com
Private Aspirine?
Are you there?
Do you really belong to the retarded, medieval Sheriff Arpaio constituency?
And you boast about it?
In a progressive forum, none the less?
Hello?
Mongo
www.itsnofun.com