As I have said before I am researching all of the candidates and trying to have some sort of education on their backgrounds so that I can feel comfortable voting, well I watched the Republican debate, and you can read that blog to know a part of how I felt about that, and a few days ago I watched the Democratic debate--much more impressive.
The democrats (I felt) started off strong and spoke more of the issues rather than who was more democratic, what a relief! And they did no get sucked into the hosts tricks to get them to slip up or attack each other, for the most part anyway.
Actually, after watching the debate I felt like my mind was changed a little bit, and that is good! The debates, like I said before, should educate the people on who the presidential candidates are, what they stand for, and perhaps a little bit of what they have done in the past.
Before the debate I really liked Obama for various reasons and he did well for himself in the debate, however who I was really impressed with (surprising to myself) was Hillary Clinton. Everyone on that stage, her competition and her hosts were trying their hardest to break her, but she was so strong! She spoke the most eloquently and self-assuredly and stuck to her guns.
I know a lot of people are on this "We hate Hillary" bandwagon, but why? She forgave an adulterous husband! That is righteous and awesome and shows her strength and commitment and belief in marriage. It also would not be the first time any wife in the White House forgave a cheating husband, does anyone remember Eleanor Roosevelt was rumored to have done the same! (check out this website it mentions her husband's infidelity in the 5th paragraph http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/eleanor/filmmore/description.html) And I have heard the complaint that Bill should not be let back in the white house, but why? He did great things for our economy, and aside from his infidelity was a generally great person, I mean, he got voted into Presidency, twice! That has to say something, has everyone forgotten?
Check out his biography to remind yourself:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/bc42.html
Also, she's obviously a woman and that is a great controversy, but let's not forget that she would not be the alone in running the country, every president has their spouse, children and a team to help them come to every single decision they make. Other countries have women that lead them now, and have had women take turns leading them for centuries! Egypt for example was once ruled by many great queens. Here you will find women currently lead Denmark, the Netherlands, the United Kingdom, Chile, Finland, India, Ireland, Liberia, the Philippines, Switzerland, Germany, New Zealand, and Mozambique: http://www.guide2womenleaders.com/
So let us stop and think, before we jump on this hateful bandwagon, what do we really know about Hillary? I don't know who I will vote for yet, but I was very impressed with her in the debate, and Obama should be worried. I would also like to see the voters get to know Hillary a little better before they swear off voting for her, she and her husband could do great things for our country if they were to get back into the White House. I also think, a lot of people will secretly vote for her and just never admit it.
Either way, back to the debate. Over all, I was impressed with how Senator Obama and Senator Clinton actually faced each other while debating, made eye contact and kept contact with the hosts and audience as well, they both have great debating skills. As far as I am concerned I think they both did a better job of answering the questions they were actually asked rather than going on a rant about Giuliani and avoiding the question all together (cough cough Biden cough cough). What I learned is that Obama and Clinton want to bring people together to get things done, going across party lines, and Obama has done that before in Illinois successfully. Clinton stated she wanted to end the war, a good thing in my book. Either way there was too much said for me to get it all in my blog obviously, but if you didn't have a chance to watch go here to read it:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/30/us/politics/30debate-transcript.html?p...
Be an educated voter!
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I dislike Hillary because she is a socialist. That she stayed with her scum of a husband doesn't change the fact that she's a socialist and believes that the money you work hard to earn should be taken from you to use as SHE sees fit. (Which, as history shows, involves making her and her friends richer, while making you poorer)
the fact that she forgave an adulterous husband is not a virtue, in my opinion. I'm a political science student and very active in local government-- and I've seen many "marriages of convenience," where a woman and a man are very politically astute, and maneuver the system by basically feeding off of each other's cachet. So, they marry, not for love, but so that they can project that they are family-oriented (which is VERY important politically), and so they can bask in the accomplishments of the spouse.
This describes Bill and Hillary Clinton, in my opinion. There are accounts that Bill wanted to divorce Hillary, and asked his political advisors what that would do to his electability in the Arkansas governor's race-- and they advised against it. They do have a troubled marriage, but I'm not sure she wanted to make it work just because of her love for him. She recognized that a divorce could hurt her chances at future political success.
The politics of this moment requires a calculating person, where every move is contrived, and every relationship made is for the sole purpose of garnering power. There is something very unhuman about this phenomenon-- and this is why I don't like Hillary Clinton. We will never get to know the real Hillary.
I live for the "We Hate Hillary Clinton Bandwagon"
(a) She's a socialist.
(b) She's pro- Universal Health Care. Aka she wants to destroy the greatest health care system in the world.
(c) She's a flip-flopper. She voted for the War in Iraq, but it's all George Bush's fault. She can't make up her mind about driver's licenses for illegal immigrants in NYC.
(d) She admires a mob boss (per her senior thesis at Wellesley).
(e) She has undermined and used her political power to victimize and humiliate women whom her husband sexually abused and used his political power to sexually harass. As a woman, this disgusts me.
(f) She stayed with said husband even after three decades of public humiliation, and a very public scandal involving a White House Intern.
(g) She launders money, both for her Senate campaign and her Presidential campaign, through Chinatown in NYS. There is also $2 million "unaccounted for" in her Senate campaign, actually donated by Peter Paul (she is on video tape thanking him at a Hollywood Gala), which she denys because he is an accused convicted felon.
(h) She wants amnesty for illegal immigrants. What a dumb idea.
(i) 3 Words: Hillary Clinton Nutcracker.
I could go on and on... but I've tired of bashing Hillary for the moment.
I really appreciate all that information! Always glad to be an informed voter...
Do not forget that she has no experience as a leader.
She's never been elected governor, had a position of authority within a company, or even been a mayor. In fact, I haven't met anyone who can name one thing she's actually accomplished as Senator of NYS.
Soaked up taxpayer funds to get a 3,000 dollar makeup job done.
Kate is my hero.
She said everything here that I wanted to but didn't want to hear the backlash. At least not this time, lol.
Down with Hillary! :-X
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this is war. every line is about who i don't wanna write about anymore. [Brand New]
http://progressiveu.org/143541-how-to-survive-the-2008-elections
PM me your school PO Box.
I'm buying you a Christmas present.
lol I don't have one :X I don't live on campus.
I'll gladly PM you my address.... maybe we can be real-live penpals, LOL
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this is war. every line is about who i don't wanna write about anymore. [Brand New]
http://progressiveu.org/143541-how-to-survive-the-2008-elections
Is there room on the wagon for me? I am a confirmed Hillary hater.
But I hope she wins the Democratic nomination because I think she is the easiest one to beat. I don't think people want another 8 years of File-Gate, Travel Gate, etc and you can get bet they are going to get reminded of these things about every 5 minutes during the months leading up to the election.
I definitely agree with you sophiafelder about Clinton's presence at the Nevada debate. Like you I was an advocate for Obama, but after seeing her command the stage with such grace I find myself jumping off the "We Hate Hillary Clinton Bandwagon" and giving her the respect she deserves. However, this doesn't necessarily mean she has won my vote yet. In fact, my eye is on Dennis Kucinich and his more libertarian approach to government.
To lancekates, disliking and dismissing Mrs. Clinton because of her socialist views is a reason for many Americans not to vote for her, but I must remind you that being a socialist isn't being un-American. You say that she will take our money and make her friends richer because she is a socialist and as irrational as this thought already is, you're also implying that this does not already happen, which it does. Why would a system designed to please the masses benefit the elite? I'm not a complete fan of Michael Moore's movies, but you need to watch Sicko and become informed. The movie has a beautiful propagandistic slant to it, however, that does not change the facts of the movie and the fact that the U.S. Health Care system is a piece of shit.
Do you believe in freedom of speech, the right to bear arms, are you pro-choice, pro-GLBT, etc...? Then how can you possibly hold it against Mrs. Clinton choosing to stay with her husband? It is a personal matter and none of your business, and if you support ANY of the freedoms listed above, then you'll support the idea of an individual loving and/or forgiving another to save a marriage. Some of us (including myself) actually believe in the vows we take on our wedding day and don't see divorce as a choice.
And to those saying he/she does/doesn't have leadership experience, it doesn't fucking matter. President Bush was the Governor of Texas before becoming President, that looked great on his resume and sounded like a sure win in the debates. However, the REALITY is...
To lancekates, disliking and dismissing Mrs. Clinton because of her socialist views is a reason for many Americans not to vote for her, but I must remind you that being a socialist isn't being un-American.
America is specifically NOT a socialist country. Therefore, supporting a Socialist Agenda is not supporting what America was founded on. It is, therefore, specifically, an un-American thing.
You say that she will take our money and make her friends richer because she is a socialist and as irrational as this thought already is, you're also implying that this does not already happen, which it does.
irrational? Look at the tax rates of socialist countries. As for the tax rates here, nearly every tax for the last 5 to 7 decades has been put in place by the will of the Democrats (Even President Bush Sr's tax hikes were done by a demcorat run congress) The liberals are sliding into socialism and are trying to tax us as such.
Why would a system designed to please the masses benefit the elite?
Socialism and Communism only please the masses until the socialists or communists have control of the country, then the open giving hand turns into a closed fist. For reference, see the Oppression in Soviet Russia, Communist China and the plethora of socialist countries where the good of the citizen is put on hold for the will of the government.
I'm not a complete fan of Michael Moore's movies, but you need to watch Sicko and become informed.
you call me irrational, then suggest that I watch that Sicko propaganda film to become informed? That's rich. I'm guessing that you saw the film and how great the Cuban medical system is.... did you know that the cubans aren't allowed to buy aspirin or other medicines? Did you know that the average cuban receives next to NO medical care? Did you know that the Cubans have special hospitals and Clinics that are reserved for the high ranking government workers, Hollywood celebrities and that THOSE were the ones shown in the film to be the 'average cuban clinic'?
There is a reason why Cubans risk their lives by floating on a refridgerator hoping to get to the United States....
The movie has a beautiful propagandistic slant to it, however, that does not change the facts of the movie and the fact that the U.S. Health Care system is a piece of shit.
The United States has the best healthcare system on the planet. There is a reason why both the rich and the poor from MANY countries come here, just for medical care. We have the best. The only POSSIBLE exception is the trauma care units in Israel which, due to decades of islamic terrorist bombings and rocket attacks, has had to become the best to save lives.
You want to see poor medical care, hurt your shouler in Canada... wait weeks for an x-ray. months for an MRI. Try needing a heart surgery.... waiting MONTHS in line (assuming that you were stamped as fit enough to wait in line for a surgery, rather than being condemned to death right away), only to be told when you finally get your turn, that you are now unfit for surgery and need to just go and die.
You want to see poor medical care, look at dentistry in England. There's a reason why they have the stereotype of having bad teeth.
You want to see GOOD medical care? Go to the doctor's office and get in. Get X-rays taken, get that MRI. Get treated. Get better.
Yes, you have to pay for it when you use it, but Universal healthcare isn't free. You pay whether you use it or not with universal healthcare, and as shown in EVERY country with socialized medicine, the prices go up but the quality goes down.
But then..... you'd already know that, but you consider Sicko to be an 'informing' film.
America is specifically NOT a socialist country. Therefore, supporting a Socialist Agenda is not supporting what America was founded on. It is, therefore, specifically, an un-American thing.
America is specifically NOT a country that endorses slavery. Therefore, supporting a notion that all men, this includes blacks, are equal is not supporting what America was founded on. True. But in 2007, slavery is very un-American.
Mrs. Clinton does not propose socialism anyway, she proposes one aspect to form a social-democracy--universal health care. And this one idea of hers, this idea that every other developed country but ours uses does not make her un-American. Please don't assume your understanding of what our founders wanted for this country is an educated one. I can tell you in three words, Freedom, Equality, and Justice. Where in our current health care is the justice when $$ comes before the individual? Where is the equality when there are still 46.6 million Americans uninsured? Where is the freedom to choose for those 46.6 million Americans? Those three words are not factored into our current health care equation.
irrational? Look at the tax rates of socialist countries. As for the tax rates here, nearly every tax for the last 5 to 7 decades has been put in place by the will of the Democrats (Even President Bush Sr's tax hikes were done by a demcorat run congress) The liberals are sliding into socialism and are trying to tax us as such.
I still think the idea of Mrs. Clinton taking our money and making her friends richer is an irrational thought, which is what you said. You are crazy to think otherwise. You are crazy to blame her with false accusations like her being a socialist, and even if she was a socialist it would STILL be irrational to think she would be taking our money and making her friends richer due to her socialist views.
Why are you talking about taxes all of a sudden when your original post gave no mention. Wait you're afraid of the socialists and their taxes! Throw in some reefer madness while were at it!! Listen, whether or not you like taxes, they need to go up. Why? I'll make it simple, our government like its citizens spend more than they earn. Someone has to pay for it. I don't care if you agree with the spending or not. Blame it on the war, blame it on proposals that provide 35 billion dollars to uninsured children, or blame it on the never ending and unsuccessful war on terro...I mean war on drugs. We elected an individual who believed he could charge all his spending to credit. Obviously, the problem didn't start with Bush, but why can't it end with him?
Socialism and Communism only please the masses until the socialists or communists have control of the country, then the open giving hand turns into a closed fist. For reference, see the Oppression in Soviet Russia, Communist China and the plethora of socialist countries where the good of the citizen is put on hold for the will of the government.
No one is suggesting or hinted to that agenda. Maybe your ill conceived notion that Mrs. Clinton is a socialist and that she wants to become the next Soviet Russia is the culprit. Don't confuse socialism with communism and don't confuse communism with a social-democracy.
you call me irrational, then suggest that I watch that Sicko propaganda film to become informed? That's rich.
Yes I called you irrational to think Mrs. Clinton is a socialist and because of that she is going to take our money and give it to her friends. I don't see how watching a documentary on an issue to become informed on that issue is irrational.
You ramble on about how GOOD this or that is and that we need the choice. You're missing the point that 46.6 million Americans don't have that choice. Or should I just fork over another $30,000 that I don't own like I did with my college tuition, which by the way is free in every other developed country. Or as you would say, you pay for it through your taxes. The thing is everyone needs health care and everyone should have access to higher education, so wouldn't it make sense that everyone pays for it? To suggest that college is a privilege anymore is absurd, it is a necessity to survive in the global market. If everyone needs it, it should be available. The government, state or federal, is there to serve the interest of the people.
Yes the documentary Sicko was an informing film to those who listened.
America is specifically NOT a country that endorses slavery. Therefore, supporting a notion that all men, this includes blacks, are equal is not supporting what America was founded on. True. But in 2007, slavery is very un-American.
So being against socialism, which turns the populace into slaves of the government, is akin to supporting slavery? Seems to be the other way aroud, historically.
Odd side note, history books teach that it was the southerners that are rampant racists, putting in the note that slaves only count as 3/5ths of a person. Truth is, the south wanted them to count as whole people, because they're people too. The NORTH, taught to be the bastion of civil rights, didn't want them to count as whole people... so they fought for the 3/5th number out of a fear that the south would have more power than the north.
Mrs. Clinton does not propose socialism anyway, she proposes one aspect to form a social-democracy--universal health care.
She pushes universal healthcare, VAST gun control, inreased social spending, and raising taxes. Those are the trademarks of a socialist.
Please don't assume your understanding of what our founders wanted for this country is an educated one.
you don't know the trademarks of socialism, but you're going to call into question my understanding of the founding fathers? That's rich. You don't know what I know, but you assume that since I disagree with you, I must be ignorant. that's a touch arrogant, to say the least.
Where in our current health care is the justice when $$ comes before the individual? Where is the equality when there are still 46.6 million Americans uninsured?
I love that number... However, you should know the truth about it. It includes the Illegal Immigrants (20 million), as well as college students and elderly that do not want health insurance (approximately 17 Million) So, that 47 Million (rounding up) becomes about 10 million ACTUAL people without insurance that WANT insurance, but can't get it. That comes out to be around 4% of the population of the United States. Oddly enough, that is also our unemployment rate.
As for money being 'more important' than the individual.... don't you see that the INDIVIDUAL only pays money when they use the healthcare system (unless they have insurance). . .. under universal healthcare, or socialized medicine as it used to be called, EVERYONE pays for it, whether they use it or not.
under universal healthcare, it is all about the money, all choice being taken away from the individual to pick where they go, or what is done to them.
Read up on the lines in Canada, or the lack of choices for those who need surgery.... even just an MRI.
I still think the idea of Mrs. Clinton taking our money and making her friends richer is an irrational thought, which is what you said. You are crazy to think otherwise. You are crazy to blame her with false accusations like her being a socialist, and even if she was a socialist it would STILL be irrational to think she would be taking our money and making her friends richer due to her socialist views.
How is that irrational? Look at who profited from Stalin and the Communist country he set up. Look at who gets money and power in most socialist countries.... Who profited from Mao? Who profited from Stalin? Who profited from the USSR? Who profited from China? the people? no. the leaders, and their chosen friends, through pet government projects. You really believe that the socialists and communists are altruistic?
No one is suggesting or hinted to that agenda. Maybe your ill conceived notion that Mrs. Clinton is a socialist and that she wants to become the next Soviet Russia is the culprit. Don't confuse socialism with communism and don't confuse communism with a social-democracy.
Read history. Learn how China became a communist nation.
Yes I called you irrational to think Mrs. Clinton is a socialist and because of that she is going to take our money and give it to her friends. I don't see how watching a documentary on an issue to become informed on that issue is irrational.
Sicko is no more accurate of a "Documentary" than Star Wars.
The thing is everyone needs health care and everyone should have access to higher education, so wouldn't it make sense that everyone pays for it?
Let's say that you bust your butt for a class. You give up partying and going out on dates and doing stuff with friends so that you can study. You find out that you're getting an A.
The person next to you parties all the time and never does any of their homework, so they're getting an F.
The demoratic capitalist says "That's too bad, but that's the consequence of not studying or preparing at all. I hope you learn from that and pay more attention to school."
The socialist says "You got an A and they got an F, I'm going to take your A away from you and give you a C so that they can get a C as well, because that's fair."
Would you want your A's taken away from you to give to someone else who doesn't bother to study and pay attention? Especially since scholarships might be dependent upon you getting A's? I would surely hope not!
it is the same with taxes. I don't mind giving charity, and I do. However, taking my money by force (taxes) to give it to people who do not provide what *I* provide for myself (Sacrificing to do so) is not charity, but rewarding bad behavior.
You're my virtual hero.
That is all.
lol.... Nice to have a fan... lol.
You are, however, the smart one.... Miss "Two super degrees" engineer lady....
You're pushing this debate into a capitalism vs. socialism direction and thats not where my beef is. I originally commented because your first post had no rational thought or depth behind it and you had to be called out on it. In doing so, you have decided to share some of your thoughts which is all I really wanted. I recognize my own hostility and would like to apologize and proceed with a healthier debate.
Both my parents, my grandparents, my wife's parents and grandparents are all entrepreneurs including myself when I'm not working for the man. I understand and support the theory of a capitalistic free market, but thats not what we have. The choice that is suppose to be present in a free market has dwindled away into a few massive private corporations who have endless amounts of influence. I respect the idea of having nothing and being able to become something great. The story of Sam Walton, Bill Gates, and Tom Monaghan to name a few are all inspiriting tales. Tom Monaghan founded Domino's Pizza in my home state of Michigan by the way. But allowing capitalism to turn into this monopolistic economy has stolen the power from the average American and given it to the executives of these massive corporations. Health care is one of those corporations that can charge medicine at any price they desire and in doing so they segregate against 46.6 million human beings who can't afford those prices. You are so worried about potential candidates potentially enslaving us with their "socialist" agenda and I'm here telling you that the private sector already has us enslaved. And its this private sector who own our broadcasting stations, our banks, our health care, and who fund the candidates that support their motives and lobby against those who don't. And is shitty as all that is, I'm just trying to reclaim the right to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness by taking back health care. I want freedom, not the freedom to choose between two mega corporations.
Putting all our eggs in a socialist or capitalist basket is certain doom. The two need each other as much as our executive, legislative, and judicial branches of government need one another. Checks and Balances.
"Sicko is no more accurate of a "Documentary" than Star Wars." Star Wars isn't a documentary though so that comparison doesn't work. If you're implying then that Sicko isn't a documentary either, then you would be wrong. Sicko IS a documentary, thats why you find it in the documentary section at the video store and why under genre at imdb it says documentary. Most people have a bias against the film before even seeing it because it is directed by Michael Moore and if you like Michael Moore's movies than you're obviously a left wing nut! ... Its just a movie man, you're allowed to agree or disagree with its content, but don't say its NOT a documentary when it clearly is.
"as well as college students and elderly that do not want health insurance (approximately 17 Million)" I’m not sure where you got the assumption that there are 17 million students and old folks don’t want health insurance. Who doesn't want health care? As a college student without health insurance I can honestly say I do want health insurance. I would be interested in seeing the source where you got 20 million illegal immigrants making up the 46.6 million uninsured.
And if you're an illegal immigrant or a legal U.S. citizen, if you get injured and are taken to the hospital they HAVE to help you. However, you're uninsured so whose going to pay the bill? I believe it is the hospital. How are they going to pay for their losses? They will jack up the price on their products and/or their service to make up for the loss otherwise the hospital will have to close (and in some cases they do). This means that you are still paying for other people's health care.
"She pushes universal healthcare, VAST gun control, inreased social spending, and raising taxes. Those are the trademarks of a socialist."
1)I'm thrilled that she pushes universal health care, I just wish more of the other candidates did as well.
2) I'm with you on strong individual gun rights, but Mrs. Clinton isn't a threat to that right. In fact, just yesterday the Supreme Court decided it will rule on the right to keep handguns at home. Your concern should be focused on what the Supreme Court RULES than what Mrs. Clinton THINKS.
3) I'm not too sure what you mean by social spending, perhaps increased government spending? The way I see it is Mr. Bush has added approx. 4 trillion on top of our ~6 trillion national debt from due to his war on terror. $4,000,000,000,000+. http://www.cedarcomm.com/~stevelm1/usdebt.htm. With the kind of emphasis our country puts on "protecting" and "securing" our borders one would think we would provide the same protection and security for our health HERE at the HOME FRONT. Socialized medicine seems good enough for our troops, but not the citizens they protect?
4)Lets be clear about this. We need to raise taxes. I don't want higher taxes. Our red and blue governments have spent more then the budgets allow. It HAS to be done, we need to fix our deficit. Its about being fiscally responsible and has nothing to do with the 'socialist left wingers' taking our hard earned money.
On a side note, compare U.S. work ethic to illegal immigrants or the children of China who work 10x harder and earn 10x less an hour to provide a product/service for the rest of us. Now that is hard earned money. As I said in my reference to Dominoes , I am a citizen of Michigan and I see the U.S. work ethic (or the lack there of) first hand. Our unemployment rate was at 7.7% as of October due to the loss of so many factory jobs. However, when I go home from college to Grand Rapids I see business after business looking to fill 2 to 4 positions. The opportunity is there, but people don't see flipping burgers as respectable so they feed off our unemployment compensation which ALMOST led to our state government shutting down. We were hours away from it happening. So my experience in Michigan leads me to believe we expect more money than we are willing to work for where illegals will do what it takes to survive. Saying MY HARD EARNED MONEY does not change the need for increased taxes. Its about being fiscally responsible.
And your analogy about school grades is a bit insulting. We're talking about health care and human lives. I understand though, we're both Americans and are not conditioned to care about the well being of others. I'm trying to change that about myself and our country. We're social beings and cannot survive without sticking together, even from a business stand point you cannot succeed without a customer willing to give you money. You are concerned more about the doctors paycheck than everyone's health. And I see it the other way around. But why can't you see the possibility of both? You can expect to receive a certain salary in every medical field, why not staple that figure into a government run health care system?
I hunger for a better country and a better life--not money. That is what being an American is all about.