If you live in one of those American societies where the political correctness nonsense is now the big thing. Where you can no longer say Christmas in schools and public squares anymore. Men, you have my condolence. The liberal nonsense known as political correctness is getting on my last nerve. Just because some Muslim or Jewish(no offense meant) guy says he's offended by the word Christmas, the whole town doesn't get to celebrate the season anymore? Non-sense.
There is a point where tolerance becomes foolishness, where patience becomes complacency, and politeness becomes stupidity. Every American born American who was old enough to complain about being offended by American traditions at the time the complaints began loves Christmas.(My opinion) And if somebody doesn't that certainly is not enough reason to scrap it.
How do you wake up one morning and claim that something that has been practiced for years is offensive to you. Who the heck are you. These same people like to claim that Christians try to impose their views on them by celebrating Christmas. News flash!!! it is an American tradition, and you can't impose your views on the rest of us. You can't change the flag of the US because red means evil in our religion or wherever it is you come from. The sad thing is that some power hungry politicians and demagogues quickly jump on silly claims like this and try to score quick political points with them.
These people come from cultures that are in the most part intact and try to invade our own culture. Dude, put a lid on it. When do we start preserving our own culture and traditions and stop yeilding to just anything. Why don't we have the balls to say "this is how we do it and if you don't like it you are free to leave". How hard is that ? If we act like the proverbial tree that forgets it's roots, we would starve and dry up; or like a river that forgets its source- we will run dry.
I could not agree more.
As long as you are not being insulting - I see nothing wrong with drawing the line and saying, "If you choose not to appreciate my traditions and be tolerant of my religion and beliefs, feel free to leave."
I definitely agree. If someone came up to me or said in passing, "Happy Hannukah".....I wouldn't be offended. I'd smile and say, "Happy Hannukah!!!" even though I'm not Jewish.
I think people need to start finding that certain line, and taking the personal responsibility to decide, "You know, I don't think that person is trying to hurt me...."
This society is turning into a me me me place pretty quickly and destructively.
Times flies like the wind; fruit flies like a banana.
I completely agree with you! I find nothing wrong with saying "Happy Hannukah" to someone even though I'm not jewish, etc.
Nor do I find it disrespectful for teachers or store owners to tastefully decorate for the winter holidays. For whatever reason christmas trees & other decorations have been labeled as christian religous symbols & are therefore improper ... I don't get it. Did I miss the part in the Bible where they mentioned decorating trees & houses with twinkling lights was a celebration of Jesus?
If someone wants to put a baby Jesus or a menorah in their window so be it. Honestly, is it that disturbing for someone to see these? What does it hurt?
What seems strange to me is that Christians are the only people offended by being wished a Happy Holiday. The fact is that there are multiple holidays that time of year. So, why not make the assumption that you're celebrating Hanuka. Why not wish everyone a Happy Honuka and let non-Jews just deal with it. Just because your holiday happens at this time of year doesn't make it your time of year.
"Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?"
Douglas Adams
"That is not dead which can eternal lie / And with strange aeons even death may die."
H. P. Lovecraft
I agree that it is ... but I highly suspect the "it" I refer to is not quite the same as you do.
You are referring to the so-called "War on Christmas". ... What war? The only people I ever hear talk about this are right-wing Christians.
I am about as vocal an atheist as you are likely to meet, and I have no problem with people saying to me, "Merry Christmas". Neither does an even more vocal atheist, Richard Dawkins. We just don't imbue it with any religious significance.
In fact, I celebrate Christmas. I think it is nice to set aside a time in which we can express our love and goodwill to the people we care about.
What this "War on Christmas" boils down to is a rather hypocritical Christian objection to retail outlets using nonspecific terms like "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas". They respond with silly-assed euphemisms like "JESUS is the REASON for the SEASON". But first of all, there is no reason to think that Jesus was born around the Christmas season. In fact, if Luke is taken seriously and Shepherds were in the fields watching their sheep, it would be very UNLIKELY that Jesus was born in December. Second, historically Christmas is a Christian abduction of a Pagan holiday... Saturnalia. So if you want to be historically correct, "SATURN is the REASON for the SEASON.
So it is NOT so much NON-Christians being offended by "Merry Christmas", it is much more like Christians being offended by "Happy Holidays". So what I find stupid is being offended by Happy Holidays.
Cheers,
Darwin's Beagle
``You are referring to the so-called "War on Christmas". ... What war? The only people I ever hear talk about this are right-wing Christians.``
I see the same thing. I don`t recall ever meeting anyone who was ``at war`` with Christmas and I`ve had friends who are Buddhist, Shintoist, Muslim, Jewish, Baha`i, Wiccan, atheist, agnostic, members of hundreds of sects of Chrhaistianity, etc.
I know Christians who are theologically against the idea of Christmas because they believe it is unbiblical and because of the fact that you cited about Saturnalia, but even they wish me a merry Christmas.
I see the paranoia each year that always seems to start with the right wing nut jobs telling their radio listeners and newsletter readers that they are somehow under attack. ``You wished me a nice evening!! How dare you not say the word Christmas in your greeting! You`ve just declared war!``
Happy Fricken Winter!
- Glenn Beck
hahaha....nice, where's the snow?
I think to get rid of politcal correctness we all need to be more lenient with others' views.
For example, near Christmas time my group of friends traditionally give each other presents. One of my friends is Jewish. It was just accepted that she gave Hannukah presents and we gave her Christmas presents. There is no religious hate among our group, but acceptance.
If the decorations start going up the day after Halloween. In fact I saw some being put up at the end of September that covers quite a few holidays.
Has it occurred to you that Jesus might have a problem with his birthday being celebrated with rampant materialism? Last I heard 40% of retail sales for the entire year.
Hillarious irony celebrating an ascetic's birthday with a frenzy of spending.
Ha Ha HA Ha. Yeah, seeing as the adds for deals tend to start before Thanksgiving (I even saw a few before Halloween), there are at least two Holidays that most peoplein this country will be celebrating anyway.
"Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?"
Douglas Adams
"That is not dead which can eternal lie / And with strange aeons even death may die."
H. P. Lovecraft
gah... I REALLY get tired of seeing christmas stuff earlier and earlier each year.
in a few years, it'll start around valentine's day.
I love my country (USA), but everything that we celebrate or do here in America was taken from other religions and cultures. And many of those practices have most definitely been "imposed" and/or forced on the people of this country in one way or another.
Yes, Christmas has been practiced for years, but it's a religious celebration and should be practiced in your home, not on every street corner. I'm not even a Christian and I think that it's distasteful to put baby Jesus on every street corner.
Back in the day, people didn't complain about things like this because they would be killed. Today people complain because they finally feel that they are protected enough to stand up for what they believe. This should not be considered a bad thing. I'm pretty sure the USA wouldn't exist if people didn't stand up for what they thought was right and against what they thought was wrong. Is it really wrong to practice your religious beliefs in your own home?
Just because something has been celebrated for years doesn’t' mean it's right. If this were the case, then how can you wake up in the morning and claim that slavery is offensive to you? We did it for so long, so shouldn't that make it ok to keep doing it? It's an American tradition, right? Why don't we still walk around and call African Americans the "N" word? Because it's offensive maybe? But we did it for so long, why should we stop now? We use to ride horses on dirt roads, but now we drive cars on interstates. It's called evolution and/or adaptation. Things change man! Get over it!
News Flash!!! How can you wake up in the morning and not remember that we were the original illegal immigrants (since 1492), and that we were the ones who damn near wiped the race of the Native Americans off the face of the map? So, who the heck are you to say that we're right and everyone else is wrong? I'm guessing that you believe in "the person with the biggest stick wins", right? Because that is the only reason that we're able to do what we do here in America. History is written by those who are in power. Be happy that you can still celebrate Christmas, but don't impose your beliefs on others.
America was built on religious diversity and tolerance no matter how much you want to think that it was built on Christianity. Our founders may have been Christian (and Freemasons), but their Freemason beliefs promoted diversity, tolerance, and freedom of religion.
We should embrace other cultures here in America? People want to come to America to be free. Let's let them do just that. That's what America is supposed to be about.
Tabias-
Yes, Christmas has been practiced for years, but it's a religious celebration and should be practiced in your home, not on every street corner. I'm not even a Christian and I think that it's distasteful to put baby Jesus on every street corner.
I agree with the last sentence of that statement, since Jesus is exclusive to one religion. I think, though, that the other decorations--the lights, the garland, etc.--aren't (nor should be) offensive. There are at least half a dozen holidays between November 1st and January 1st that cover just about every religion out there. It's a time of celebration and cheerfulness (the original winter holidays were started to break up the dreariness of winter), and I think our cities and towns should be able to reflect that. They can, however, do so without targeting a specific religion.
-- quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
The lights and whatnot are fine. Nothing more stunning than a neighborhood totally decked out with lights and whatnot.
I'm in the military and we have rules about how and when to display the flag. I guess I feel kinda the same way about having baby Jesus on every corner. It's just disrespectful if you ask me (but who's asking me).
Tabias-
Why can't everyone wish whatever the hell they want? Is the majority of the population so close-minded that if someone says, merry christmas, happy holidays, happy hanakkah, happy kwanza, or whatever, that it offends them? Every religion and people as a whole need to grow up a little, if something as meaningless as a holiday greeting offends them.
Amen
How dare you bring the word amen into this, religion is bad, people shouldn't be able to say amen anymore, you have to say, agreed or something like that.
But wait, that's offensive to us religious folks, this is war on religions!
lol
What! War! Blast! Fetch me my rifle.....whoa. That bomb was too close for comfort! Wait, those bastards! They blew up the Game Stop!
"Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?"
Douglas Adams
"That is not dead which can eternal lie / And with strange aeons even death may die."
H. P. Lovecraft
OMG, they blew up the nativity scene, and that giant menorah! Oh no, now they've gotten the kinara's now too! Damn them.
...torpedo that ship coming from China loaded with toys.
Wait!
They contaminated the toys with lead!
Diabolical.
Ah, you fiend!!! Cutting off our children's toys supplies. Yes, that will bring them to their knees.
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
Friedrich Nietzsche
Agreed.
I don't know what the issue is. I'm Christian, but I don't get offended when anyone says "happy _______" (fill in the blank with anything you'd like) to me.
It's a season where everyone is happy ... or pretends to be. Why do we have to screw it up with political BS?
Just smile, be happy, and wish people happiness in whatever way you see fit.
----
http://progressiveu.org/143541-how-to-survive-the-2008-elections
Then you shouldn't be offended when I wish you a Happy Saturnalia. :P
I think many are missing the point.
We don't get offended if you wish us a happy holidays or 'happy seasons' or whatever your personal holiday greeting is.
We get cranky when people try to suggest that WE shouldn't say "Merry Christmas" because it might offend someone....
We get cranky when stores say "We're not going to say Merry Christmas this year because we don't want to offend anyone."
To say that you refuse to say Merry Christmas out of fear of offending someone means that "Merry Christmas" is offensive.
THAT is what offends us.... that while a person may have their holiday (or non-holiday to others), and I am to accept that as ok, it is somehow offensive to reference MY holiday.
I don't care what religion any of you are, or what type of holiday, if any, you celebrate in late December. *I* celebrate Christmas, and if you don't LIKE the references to such.... tough. The same right that lets you celebrate yours lets me celebrate mine.
I have an issue with only one thing.
"We get cranky when stores say "We're not going to say Merry Christmas this year because we don't want to offend anyone."
The reason this might be offensive is not the statement, but a sort of assumption that everyone shopping in the store celebrates Christmas. Personally, I don't care. But, I can see how people could find it offensive. Would you honestly not be in the slightest offended if all the people in all the stores wised you a happy Hanukkah? Could you imagine feeling that that's a little presumptuous of them?
"Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?"
Douglas Adams
"That is not dead which can eternal lie / And with strange aeons even death may die."
H. P. Lovecraft
Would you honestly not be in the slightest offended if all the people in all the stores wised you a happy Hanukkah? Could you imagine feeling that that's a little presumptuous of them?
nope. like I said, I don't care what religion they follow, just so long as there isn't a double standard that it is ok to show THEIR religion, but offensive for me to show mine, even in a simple greeting.
I lived in St. Louis Park, MN... which a VERY big Jewish population. The local grocery stores (even the regional "Cub Foods") had Hanukkah decorations up instead of Christmas decorations. I didn't care. I still said Merry Christmas to them, they'd smile and say "And Happy Hanukkah to you too!" and we were happy and content, despite being from two different religions ACTUALLY speaking to one another without the fear of having to be Politically Correct.
I'm often offended by reverse discrimination. I really DON'T have to bend over backwards to make sure that you and your religion (be it atheism, monotheism or polytheism) is represented. If you want to celebreate, or not celebrate, as you see fit.... that's fine. I don't care.
We just ask that you extend to us the same ability. I don't care if a store puts up Hanukkah decorations, I only care if they say "Because we don't want to offend anyone, we're not going to say Merry Christmas."
That offends me.
It is the choice of the store to say "Happy Holidays" rather than "Merry Christmas". They are recognizing that not all people are Christian. That should not offend you. Now, if a law was made saying that no one could say Merry Christmas anymore, I could understand your offense. As is stands now, government entities can display religious symbols, as long as they aren't exclusive to one religion (i.e. a Christmas tree can be put up next to a menorah, but if the entity refuses to put up a menorah and keeps the Christmas tree up, they're breaking the law).
~C
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like i've said, a few times now . .. I don't care if they don't say "Merry Christmas"
I get offended when they refuse to say it because saying "Merry Christmas" may offend others.
THAT'S when I get upset. It is the idea that MY religion needs to be hidden so that we can make sure that someone else doesn't have to be offended by the existance of MY religion's holiday.
Lowe's just released an ad with Christmas Trees in them. But they were labeled "Family Trees" . .. alot of complaints later, they issued an apology, blaming "printing errors"....
I don't care if people don't celebrate Christmas... I don't care. We're free to do so.
But if you try to suggest that me saying Merry Christmas is wrong because it may offend someone who isn't a christian, you'll get a bit of an arguement from me.
My right to exercise my religion trumps their wholly nonexistant right to not be offended.
If a Company says that they are not going to say "Merry Christmas" so it doesn't offend someone who doesn't celebrate christmas (remember that MANY non-christians still celebrate christmas in the secular form, giving presents and such, with Santa Claus), then I have a right to stand up and disagree with them. I also have the right to not shop there, and let them know why.
I don't care if they say merry christmas or not... If they choose not to because they aren't christians, or their shop is in a heavy muslim or jewish area (or other religion)... that's fine.
But to not say merry christmas out of fear of offending someone...... that's offensive and discriminatory.
It's a good thing that Wal-Mart has officially and openly accepted and promoted the Pastafarian holiday of Holiday. It got so dull hearing "Merry Christmas" when we all know about the Holiday season (FSM has been around since the dawn of time), it's insane. But finally, Thank Noodliness, someone has officially recognized Holiday as a holiday.
Nicholas Aden
Self-Promotion
You should fear me. I am italian and, therefore, like spaghetti.
I might eat your god.
In that case, you should also fear me.
I make a mean lasagna.
I love spaghetti. It's very filling. That's the first sign that his Noodliness is there: You can feel him fill your stomach when you take part in communion with him: When you dine on his chosen food. Comprable to eating dried/bread crackers in a Catholic church, eating a bowl of spaghetti is highly recognized as the purest expression of FSM faith there is.
Nicholas Aden
Self-Promotion
Well, then. I'll have to rescind my comment.
"Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?"
Douglas Adams
"That is not dead which can eternal lie / And with strange aeons even death may die."
H. P. Lovecraft
You bastard!
"Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?"
Douglas Adams
"That is not dead which can eternal lie / And with strange aeons even death may die."
H. P. Lovecraft
i don't really care, it is not like i know anyone who was offended by the word merry christmas. if i remember correctly it was devout chrisitans who was so disgusted by the commercialization of christmas and how christmas became a symbol of consumerism instead of being together with your family that they became offended by the word "merry christmas" and wanted the word happy holiday.
Amen, preach it! People say it's offensive to them that we call it 'Christmas' in America. Well I find it offensive that you come to my homeland and tell me that I can't say 'Christmas' because the word 'Christ' is in it. Well, bahumbag on you Mr. Scrooge, I'm saying "MERRY CHRISTMAS, Y'ALL!" and you can either like it or lump it--doesn't make a difference to me.
_________________
<3 Bridget <3
"Love is like a war. It's easy to start, hard to stop, and impossible to forget."
Bah Humbug. Bug, not bag. Bug.
Nicholas Aden
Self-Promotion
Easy for you to say when your religion is the majority. It's just not very respectful to others to do things like that. One day, Christianity will again be in the minority and your ancestors will have to deal with people like you who have no respect for the minority faiths.
Tabias-
Descendent's, not ancestors.
"Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?"
Douglas Adams
"That is not dead which can eternal lie / And with strange aeons even death may die."
H. P. Lovecraft
Yeah, I guess that didn't really make any sense now did it? I stand corrected.
Thanks,
Tabias-
And, we'll survive.
We've been thrown to lions. We survived.
If you try to be a christian in china, you get arrested. Yet they survive.
Why do I have to place my religion aside in order ot embrace yours, so that YOU don't appear to be discriminated against? Why does my faith in my religion affect you in yours?
Why are you unable to hear the words "Merry Christmas" without being filled with this idea that the utterance of those two words together, as a greeting, is a great social injustice to you?
Pfft. Lions. Try surviving the Holocaust, then brag about the durability of your religion.
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
Friedrich Nietzsche
millions of christians were also killed in the holocaust, along side the millions of jews.
many of the christians were killed for their opposition to the nazi party and the nazi party's hatred of the jews.
Another tidbit that is, far too often, left out of the historybooks.
Almost flagged this comment. That would have been silly.
I was, in a way, being sarcastic. I don't care one way or another for the future of Christianity, but I imagine it will be around for some time yet to come.
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
Friedrich Nietzsche
why did you almost flag my comment?
'Twas merely an error.
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
Friedrich Nietzsche
Sources for that? I'd like to see that, since everything I've found doesn't mention anyone else for their religion except the Jews. The only others that are listed are gay men, gypsies, POWs, and disabled (as well as a few others, but the closest thing to Christians are the Jehovah's Witnesses and that's a minuscule number compared to the other groups).
-- quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Numbers vary:
This site focuses on the polish christians, 3 million, who were killed alongside the Jews for trying to save the Jews from the camps:
http://www.holocaustforgotten.com/Lucaire.htm
There are other sites that give different numbers, but most that don't blame christians for the holocaust suggest between 1 to 4 million christians.
If you live in one of those American societies where the political correctness nonsense is now the big thing. Where you can no longer say Christmas in schools and public squares anymore.
What utter nonsense! You can say "Christmas" in any school or public square in this country.
Just because some Muslim or Jewish(no offense meant) guy says he's offended by the word Christmas, the whole town doesn't get to celebrate the season anymore?
What town would that be? Imagination Town, USA?
Nobody is against Christmas. Nobody is fighting Christmas celebrations. Nobody is invading our culture and taking away our Christmas. Try shutting off that right-wing talk radio and climbing out of your mom's basement every once in a while. The Christmas decorations are pretty out here.
Very good points. Agreed.
No one complains when people scream out happy quanza or happy honika (excuse my spelling) but Merry Christmas is no longer welcome? That makes no sense.
If we are welcomed to say every other salutation in the book except merry christmas in a public settin then we should not be welcomed to say anything at all.
My American Government teacher told me that: when Communism comes to America, it will come in the form of Americanism; and I believe she is right!
There's two major flaws with that argument. First, it's not people getting upset by "Merry Christmas," but rather Christians getting upset because public institutions (schools, stores, towns, etc) have gone to "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas." Christians in general believe that Christmas/the birth of Jesus are the sole reason for the celebration this time of year (which simply isn't true).
The second is that your argument is not an example of communism, but rather more along the lines of fascism (if you want to go to the extremes of using names of socioeconomic systems). Communism is a political/social/economic system in which everyone is treated equally and everyone gets an equal share. There are no social classes and everything is publicly owned. Fascism, on the other hand, is more geared toward controlling personal freedoms and the main focus is the government. After thinking about it, and writing this, though, I just think it's the general public getting too politically correct and afraid to offend anyone, since we've become so sue-happy in this country that it wouldn't surprise me if there was already a lawsuit about it.
-- quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
It is not the shift to 'Happy Holidys" that has christans upset, but the idea that the shift came because "Merry Christmas" is somehow offensive to people.
it is the assumption that our religious holiday is offensive that offends us.
As for the communism bit.... the lure of communism is the idea that everyone has an equal share and all live in commune with one another.
As the USSR showed, what they tell the masses is vastly different from what actually happens. Under Communist Russia, around 100 million people were killed, either starved to death or executed.
Tolerence is tolerence until it comes to Christianity; then suddenly tolerence swallows itself and suddenly becomes intolerent. It seems to me that tolerence in the case of Christianity has backfired on itself.
"If imperfections are what make us beautiful, then I must be a total babe!"
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/missionsminded-maiden
Why tolerence and not acceptance? Why can't you just accept people and their religions...I accept the Christian religions, but I will attack it, along with any other that makes false statement about other religions or doesn't tolerate other religions. So I have lost respect for most of Christianity, Islam and parts of the Hindu religions.