I wonder why people restrict different kinds of love. Are they afraid that once the forbidden relationships get out, everything will fall like dominoes? Why is incestuous love a bad thing if two people love each other so?
No, I am not in love with anyone in my family. It's too weird for me. But there really are people who want to marry each other despite the fact that they're sister and brother. Yes, family members are not supposed to love each other like that. Just like how two people of the same sex shouldn't love each other and just like how more than two people shouldn't get married at the same time. Because of society teaches us that a true form of love is between a man and a woman, we tend to believe that is the only truth and everything else is nonsense.
Many people have to suffer due to the fact that they cannot help who they fall in love with. I can only imagine what kinds of experiences they have to go through. I really don't see the point of us butting into their personal lives. If they love each other and agree to be together, let them be. They're not criminals and they're not hurting anybody.
What I hate the most is when a child is forced into incestuous sexual activities by older adults. I find it very disturbing. That is not love, it's a crime. When someone is forced to do something, that's when people cross the lines. People get a misconception when they see such a crime happening and assume ALL incestuous activities are wrong.
I may not agree with it, but I am willing to support and accept it. As long as they're happy, who are we to stop them?
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I am glad to know there are people out there who are open minded still....
Thanks. But I guess some topics are too uncomfortable for people to talk about. If they disagree with it, they often ignore what is being presented in front of them. I'm trying to overcome myself on other issues too. It's hard though. It's really hard.
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I think a big reason why people are against incest is because it causes deformity in the offspring. I'm totally with you though... I don't see why people feel they have the right to butt into other people's business, SO LONG AS they aren't hurting anyone.
Marriage is just another way religion has integrated into our government. So much for the separation of church and state and the right to pursue happiness, huh?
Yes, I heard about incests having deformity offspring too. Again, you can't really blame them. They probably didn't even know it was possible to have babies together. I'm beginning to think there is no separation of church, state and the right to pursue of happiness.
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"Yes, I heard about incests having deformity offspring too. Again, you can't really blame them."
Why can't you blame them?
"They probably didn't even know it was possible to have babies together."
Are we talking about complete simpletons here or children? I would have thought that most people who are not mentally impaired would be aware of this from about age 13 at the very latest. I knew at 7 for crying out loud. If this is the calibre of incestuous couple you are defending, may I suggest that their coupling might be the result of some kind of mental impairment, whereby they are not really fit to make a decision of this magnitude.
I mean if you see a mentally retarded individual having sex with a dog would you refuse to intervene if they both seemed to be enjoying it? After all who are you to judge, just because you've got a big clever brain and want to discriminate against the mentally retarded, forcing your views and values upon him/her.
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I am the people my mother warned me about.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/tuffgong
I think the chances of a deformity in a child born of incest is relatively low, only 1 or 2% higher than the norm. It depends on how closely related the people are, of course, but even so I don't think it's shockingly high.
"It is much more likely that both parents will carry the same recessive gene if the parents are related. The risk of a serious disease or malformation in a child of such a union is about 1 in 20. However, among married first cousins, the risk increases to about 1 in 11. If the couple are first-degree relatives, the risk is 1 in 2."
http://www.healthcentral.com/encyclopedia/408/219.html
So I really don't think you thought at all before posting that comment....
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I am the people my mother warned me about.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/tuffgong
My apologies, I harshly misinterpreted my source. Thanks for correcting me!
I am glad to know there are people out there who are open minded still....
I am too, I'm just not so glad that people like you seem to think that a complete lack of critical evaluation constitutes being open-minded. It sullies the definition of open-mindedness and actively works as propaganda for rigid conservatives to encourage people to stay narrow-minded, and who could blame them. If I thought that's what being open-minded was, I'd close mine tighter than a flea's asshole.
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I am the people my mother warned me about.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/tuffgong
"Why is incestuous love a bad thing if two people love each other so?"
It's a bad thing because it encourages inbreeding which is scientifically proven to lead to a host of physical, but more significantly mental impairment.
Do you know whay most Doctors are so anti-single parents? It's not based on simple moral outrage, I can tell you that. Their big fear is that guys who have kids with multiple mothers in large urban areas, or mothers who have multiple kids with multiple partners, will lead, in a matter of a generation or two, to a huge rise in accidental inbreeding. They fear that single mothers who don't know who the fathers of their kids are, and fathers who don't keep record of who they've had kids with, will lead to unintentional incest.
The reason this concerns them so much is because in a few generations of repeated inbreeding, the level of mental disorders and physical disabilities amongst percentages of large Urban communities will sky rocket. People will make all sorts of arguments for not smoking while pregnant, not doing street drugs while pregnant, not getting drunk while pregnant, all with the aim of reducing the chances of impairing the child. So to answer that question about what's so bad about incestuous love, simply draw on your own personal feelings regarding drinking, drugging and smoking while pregnant and what's wrong with that. It's unfair to the child, it's unfair to the family and it's unfair to other members of society who may have to deal with their potentially psychotic or imbecilic offspring.
"But there really are people who want to marry each other despite the fact that they're sister and brother."
There are also people who really want to marry each other, despite the fact that one is 50 and the other is 12.
"Just like how two people of the same sex shouldn't love each other and just like how more than two people shouldn't get married at the same time."
Same sex marriage or bigamy do not pose the same risk for birth defects as inbreeding through insest.
"Because of society teaches us that a true form of love is between a man and a woman, we tend to believe that is the only truth and everything else is nonsense."
A closed minded portion of society teaches this, not society. Homosexual relationships are accepted by any open-minded person as being natural and beneficial to those involved, the only negative aspects are the result of discrimination and hate projected by largely religious sections of society which makes life difficult and potentially dangerous for the couple.
But there is a difference between being open-minded and being so open minded that your brain falls out. When people start validating incest as acceptible behaviour, then they must validate paedophilia. Since a girl reaches reproductive maturity at 12, then by your standard, what's so wrong with a man in his 60s who's still able to reproduce, marrying her and fucking her and having kids with her? Are we all just closed minded for believing the negative outcomes of such a coupling outweigh their 'right' to love who they want unhindered?
To be honest when people start making arguments for incest and paedophilia to be accepted I fully understand what keeps conservatives so closed minded and why they think Liberals are a joke. It's why I wince when people call me a Liberal for disagreeing with the bulk of conservative opinion. Some accepted societal conventions are there for very good reason, like the idea that it's wrong to rape people. That is a societal teaching. Is that narrow-minded? Or do you not think it might be a societal norm for more practical reasons, like the psychological and physical impact of such an act on the victim, aswell as both the families of victim and rapist and society at large?
"Many people have to suffer due to the fact that they cannot help who they fall in love with."
There's billions of potential partners on the face of this each to choose from, probability and reason would dictate that a person could find more than one person to love. Would you be willing to extend this same fluffy courtesy to a paedophile who couldn't help if he fell in love with a child who loved him back? To be honest, I fuckin hate that whole line of excuse, it's the one brought out by women who let their husbands kick the shit out of them, by 'best-friends' who can't help fucking their buddies girlfriend, by people who cheat with other people who love them, by the people being cheated on as a reason for staying with the cheater, the list goes on.
The fact is that you may not be able to help who you genuinely fall in love with, but that does not give anybody licence to claim that they couldn't help acting on it. Paedophiles can't help who they are attracted to, which is a tragic condition for them to bear, one worthy of sympathy. But does that mean we should accept it as perfectly okay for them to act upon their attraction? No, we label it as a mental sickness, because that's what it is, if acted upon it brings about far more negative outcomes than it does positive.
"I really don't see the point of us butting into their personal lives."
Can you see the point of butting into the personal life of your mother if she decided she loved your brother and decided to fuck him, leave your dad and attempt to marry your sibling with the intention of raising a family with him? Or is incest only fine and dandy between brothers and sisters? Maybe I'm just narrow-minded and browbeaten by society's prejudice teachings, but I can definitely see a point in 'butting into their personal lives'. I think that there is a distinction that needs to be made between love born of a sound mind and love born of mental illness.
"They're not criminals and they're not hurting anybody."
Who says they're not hurting anybody? They're hurting their families, they're hurting their children, and because of the likliehood that their children will pass on genetic deformities which could have been otherwise avoided should they breed with the general population, they are hurting society. If a mother smokes, drugs and drinks while pregnant, knowing how this dramatically raises the chance of harm to the child, it is no different to two people having children through incest with the same understanding that it leads to huge risks of birth defects and genetic perversion.
"What I hate the most is when a child is forced into incestuous sexual activities by older adults. I find it very disturbing. That is not love, it's a crime. When someone is forced to do something, that's when people cross the lines. People get a misconception when they see such a crime happening and assume ALL incestuous activities are wrong."
What if the child isn't forced, is it okay then? I mean neither party can help who they fall in love with right? If a 6 year old child is consenting by your standard there should be no problem, because the idea that a child's consent to sex with an adult is invalid is merely a narrowminded societal teaching, no? Who are we to butt in?
"I may not agree with it, but I am willing to support and accept it. As long as they're happy, who are we to stop them?"
I couldn't disagree with you more. For all the reasons I've posted in this response.
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I am the people my mother warned me about.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/tuffgong
You've always manage to surprise me with your reasoning. lol To be honest with you, no one really ever told me and I never knew incestuous relationship may lead to deformity to their child until...like last year. I have no idea where I've been all these times, teachers never really bring it up in school and I didn't care enough to find out for myself. Besides birth defects and hurting their own family, I don't think that can even stop two people from being together if they really want to. There are kids who run away from home to be with their forbidden boyfriends or girlfriends too. Incests can just agree not to have kids. Many of them probably hide in the shadows anyway. Like I said, I don't agree with it. But it's not like we can really stop it from happening.
You've brought out pedophiles into the argument, whenever I think of them it's always about molesting or forcing kids to do something they do not want to do. You're focusing too much on the subject of sex. Is it the only thing that comes down to when people are in a relationship? If it is mental illness, why do people put them in jails instead of giving them help?
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"Incests can just agree not to have kids."
I don't agree with acting on incestuous tendancies on any level. The same way I don't agree with people acting on paedophilic tendancies. I see both incestuous family members and paedophiles as mentally ill people whose impulses, if acted on, cause considerable damage to those around them.
"But it's not like we can really stop it from happening."
Can we stop paedophiles from acting on their urges? We try, be that through councelling, psychiatry or incarceration.
"You've brought out pedophiles into the argument, whenever I think of them it's always about molesting or forcing kids to do something they do not want to do."
But what about a paedophile in his 60s who charms a 12 year old girl so much that she falls deeply in love with him and he inturn loves her back. Is that an acceptable relationship, or would it be better described as immature love meets mentally ill love?
"You're focusing too much on the subject of sex. Is it the only thing that comes down to when people are in a relationship?"
Sex is a very important part of a healthy adult relationship. It may not be that important to younger teenage couples, but for adults it is. If by incest, I thought you meant two family members holding hands and kissing and that it wasn't going to go past that, I'd have no issue, it's weird, but fuck it, it's more embarassing than dangerous. Many family members love each other very much, what separates that most notabley from incest is sexual relations.
"If it is mental illness, why do people put them in jails instead of giving them help?"
Look at the prison systems, do you think that the masses give a shit about rehabilitating the sick or would you be more inclined to agree that they are more interested in punishment and revenge against those who insult their moral sensibilities? Look at the number of drug users and addicts stuffed into cells rotting, surrounded by drugs, does that sound like the help they need?
The fact is, supposedly moral people simplify everything down to notions like good and evil. Good being what they find agreeable, evil being what they find disagreeable, with no shades of grey between in their self illustrated black and white world. They aren't interested in helping the sick, because that would mean they have to recognize sickness in idividuals they want to feed fat their moral outrage on through punishment, torture and revenge. If they recognized somebody as sick instead of evil, then they have to make the effort to understand their sickness, this requires empathy, and is much more difficult than just locking people up or executing them for being 'evil'.
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I am the people my mother warned me about.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/tuffgong