A Dutch lawmaker was preparing to upload a 15 minute film that would supposedly expose how Islam has been an inspiration for "intolerance, murder and terror" around the world. The host of the website amidst protests from Mulims has shut down the website.
Of course the Islamic world has been going crazy. Everybody from Al Qaeda, to the Iranian government, to people on the streets of Afghanistan, and other parts of the Arab world have been protesting, in some cases violently, against the film. The film is to be named from a word in the Koran which means 'strife'. Many European leaders have shown concern that the release of this film might cause violent protests.
Now to the really sad part of the story. The law maker was preparing to release the film with an American internet company, and even they have bowed under the pressure of the Islamic rhetoric. I can imagine the law maker thinking he'll use an American web host because we supposedly have free speech here. Well, so much for free speech. The website(http://www.fitnathemovie.com/) has been shut down by the AMERICAN COMPANY and the last corner of the world that seems not to be frenzied with this fear of Islam is now showing signs of weakness.
In my humble opinion, Network Solutions, the Virginia based company is a disgrace to America. Europe has lost the war against Islamo-fascism. The movie that's been causing all this controversy is one in which NO MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC HAS SEEN. That's right, IT HASN'T BEEN SHOWN TO THE PUBLIC. Yet, Muslims are taking to the streets in the middle east in violent protest of a film that many of them(who don't have an internet connection or reliable source of news) have just heard as rumors.
I think if nothing else, this radical unexplainable behavior has shown beyond what any film can show, the amount of intolerance and thirst for blood among the Muslim society. In my opinion it is an assault on free speech on a global scale. I hope the United States which seems to be the worlds last stand against this religious militancy would not give in to the propaganda of this unfortunate set of people.
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From BBC News:
Dutch Islam film website 'shut'
Fitnathemovie.com
The content of the film is unknown but it has already sparked protests
A website that a Dutch right-wing politician was planning to use to release a film expected to be fiercely critical of Islam has been suspended.
The US hosting service, Network Solutions, said it was investigating complaints that it may have breached guidelines on hate language.
Dutch politician Geert Wilders says the 15-minute film describes Islam as "the enemy of freedom".
The planned release has sparked angry protests in many Muslim countries.
The Dutch government has disassociated itself from Mr Wilders' views, but there are fears the film will spark protests similar to those that followed the publication in Denmark two years ago of cartoons seen as offensive to Muslims.
The film has already been condemned by several Muslim countries, including Iran and Pakistan.
Hate messages
Mr Wilders' film is entitled Fitna, an Arabic word used to describe strife or discord, usually religious.
Mr Wilders wrote a commentary in a Dutch newspaper on Saturday.
"The film is not so much about Muslims as about the Koran and Islam. The Islamic ideology has as its utmost goal the destruction of what is most dear to us, our freedom," he wrote in De Volkskrant.
Right-wing Dutch lawmaker Geert Wilders has ignored pleas to shelve his project
"Fitna is the last warning for the West. The fight for freedom has only just begun," he said.
He had been using Network Solutions to promote the film.
But on Sunday, Network Solutions said it had received a number of complaints that were under investigation.
It said the site was suspended until it was established whether the content of the site violated Network Solutions' terms of acceptable use.
They include "material that is obscene, defamatory, libellous, unlawful, harassing, abusive... hate propaganda" and "profane, indecent or otherwise objectionable material of any kind or nature".
Mr Wilders has had police protection since Dutch director Theo van Gogh was killed by a radical Islamist in 2004.
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I also found this:
March 22nd, 2008
By Foo Yun Chee AMSTERDAM (Reuters) -
About one thousand people protested in central Amsterdam on Saturday against right-wing lawmaker Geert Wilders and the imminent release of his film expected to be critical of the Koran.
Anti-racism protesters clad in winter clothing against the freezing cold and drizzling rain held placards that said “Enough is enough” and “Stop the witch-hunt against Muslims.”
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So, you're pissed off because he's not allowed to put up 15 minutes of hate, anguish, and fear? I'm not. We don't need any more hate propaganda. The guy openly despises Muslims and the Islamic religion. Do you think any of that 15 minutes is credible? I'm all for freedom of speech, but every web host has its restrictions on what they will allow. If it makes you feel better, he said in an interview that he will
In my humble opinion, I think this country is looking a little fascist at the moment.
The Muslims are not the only ones to have religious militancy within their religion.
-Sonja :)
"Democracy works only when you vote. When you don't take the time to vote for the candidate you find the least offensive, you run the risk of electing the candidate you find the most offensive."
"So, you're pissed off because he's not allowed to put up 15 minutes of hate, anguish, and fear?"
ABSOLUTELY!!!
Have you heard the saying "I may not agree with what you say but I will die fighting for your right to say it?" That is American. Pure and simple. These same people sit in the living rooms while their kids watch anti- American and Anti- jew cartoons, and take to the streets when there are SPECULATIONS about a film that contains anti-Islamic contents.
"Mr Wilders has had police protection since Dutch director Theo van Gogh was killed by a radical Islamist in 2004."
And you need a movie to prove how dangerous the islamic fascists can be? If you llet them have their way, you are only feeding the beast.
My main point was that the web hosting company backed out because of its own standards on hate speech. Yeah, let him put his movie out. Let him find a company to host it. Let him make cds of it. Whatever. It's not like this is the only anti-Muslim propaganda out there. The protests and everything are because he made such a show of it and got the media involved. I actually wonder if there even is a movie...
And how is it speculation when the guy flat out states that it is anti-Islamic propaganda???
I would think that if some country invaded and occupied my country, I might be a little bitter too.
-Sonja :)
"Democracy works only when you vote. When you don't take the time to vote for the candidate you find the least offensive, you run the risk of electing the candidate you find the most offensive."
"My main point was that the web hosting company backed out because of its own standards on hate speech"
Actually that was not your main point. Of all the points you made that was probably the least emphasized. But hey, if you turn around and decide that was your main point... who am i to say it wasn't. I can't remember when some country invaded Iran, but you just had to bring that in huh? haha. You would think what?
I posted the first story because it explained why the US company backed out of hosting the premiere, which seemed to be your main gripe. And I did say "I'm all for freedom of speech, but every web host has its restrictions on what they will allow."
Second to that, you implied that all of the protesting was on the side of Muslims. I posted the part of the second article in response to that.
I don't know where the rest of my statement went, but Wilders said in an interview that he will give out dvds if he can't get it hosted online. He believes he's the last hope in freedom against Islamic beliefs.
You don't think the Administration is biding time to launch a campaign against Iran? They're already setting the stage for the possibility. We went into Iraq for no cause and have OCCUPIED the country for five years.
-Sonja :)
"Democracy works only when you vote. When you don't take the time to vote for the candidate you find the least offensive, you run the risk of electing the candidate you find the most offensive."
I don't have any business with Iran or Iraq or even the administration.
"He believes he's the last hope in freedom against Islamic beliefs." He might very well be.
"I can also find plenty of sites that promote hate through Holy Books, especially the Bible. These books were written in a way that people can perceive different meanings- any meaning they want."
I gave you a website of Christians, you said it's because they were Christians, i gave you that of Muslims, you said you don't believe in religion. The problem with your argument is that these sources cite non-religious sources. Encyclopedias don't "promote hate" they state facts. But i guess as you always do, you'll find an excuse to ignore those facts.
"(Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics (ed. Hastings), I:326" and "The Foundation of the Community, Muhammad at al-Medina," vol. vii, translated and annotated by M.V. McDonald and W. Montgomery Watt, State University of New York Press, Albany, 1987" are some of the sources cited by those links i sent you and all you can say is that "These books were written in a way that people can perceive different meanings- any meaning they want" .
"Nobody fought a war over not being religious," I guess the term 'militant atheist' must be new to you.
"My point has been that you continue to make the same point- all Muslims are violent and Islam is evil. At least, that's the point I got from you."
Well, that's what you wanted to get. I guess you were too busy trying to generalize Islam with religion as a whole that you ended up generalizing what i have said. So, i'll clearly define my point to you with a direct quote from one of my past comments:
"..let that act be known of the founder of the religion and members of the religion be known to do it throughout their existence, then you would be in denial to claim the religion is not the problem."
That doesn't say the Muslims are the problem, does it? No. It says the religion is the problem. If i say Christianity is the reason Christians are so charitable, it doesn't mean all Christians are charitable, no, it means Christianity is their problem.
See this has a spiritual side to it and if you can't get past the idea that religion is a myth, then we can't even go into that... because you will be incapable of understanding.
All I've been trying to say is that the Islamic religion in and of itself does not promote the violence and hate. The violence is from fundamentalist Muslims taught to misinterpret what the Qur'an is teaching.
Religious books can be interpreted to mean different things. The bible, for some, also incites violence and hate. For example, check out http://www.godhatesamerica.com/ or http://www.godhatesfags.com/ to see how scriptures are turned into hate messages- radical religious distortions. On the other hand, check out http://wouldjesusdiscriminate.com/ to see other biblical scripture interpreted a different way.
I must have missed the war involving the militant atheists... It apparently didn't get much news time.
I will remain in denial and still claim that the Islamic religion is not the problem, and repeat my view that the problem is the misinterpretations of the Islamic Holy books, which is not the interpretations of all Muslims. I do understand religion, so don't condescend me. I think I have a much more objective view than a religious person would have.
Isn't there still a rift between certain Christian sects?
-Sonja :)
"Democracy works only when you vote. When you don't take the time to vote for the candidate you find the least offensive, you run the risk of electing the candidate you find the most offensive."
What i'm trying to tell you is that the biggest problem you have is that you think you are more objective than people who are affiliated with one religion or the other. You don't realize that your hatred with anything religion is blocking what is supposed to be your religious objectivity.
If you compare something that happened with an isolated group of people in an isolated period of time with something that has happened throughout the existence of a religion with a majority and you claim that's objectivity just because you want to classify all religions as bad.
By saying "Islamic religion in and of itself does not promote the violence and hate.", you are not only offending my sensibilities but that of those who have spent their lives studying the religion and then taken up arms or encouraged others to do so, i'm talking about all the ayatollahs ALL of whom have advocated violence, and the high ranking Muslim scholars who have done the same. You believe because you took a few classes of religion, you know that those people are misinterpreting their koran. I'm pretty sure Muhammad, the murderer who started the religion, would be offended.
That's funny, because you're not doing that alone, you are also trying to classify the Christianity and every other religion with Islam. That i am trying to show is absolutely distorted generalization.
About atheism causing wars what do you think Hitler was? How about Stalin? How about Mao Zedong?
I said I don't have a belief, and that's a really far stretch from hatred. I don't believe any religion is bad, but that any religion can turn bad in the name of the deity.
I am done with this.
-Sonja :)
"Democracy works only when you vote. When you don't take the time to vote for the candidate you find the least offensive, you run the risk of electing the candidate you find the most offensive."
You have a belief. You believe that because you can't see something it doesn't exist. At least that's what you believe about God. You believe that everything you see was not created but appeared out of ... uuummm , out of...
I'm soon gonna start my theory stating the world started out of the big whistle, i'm sure people would leave their big bang religion and join mine lol
Thank you for telling me what I believe! I had other ideas, but if you say otherwise, I guess you would have to be right. Especially considering you know me so well. Thank you!
And outside of sarcasm now, was the "lol" necessary? I mean, I didn't even crack a smile, and I usually laugh at everything.
-Sonja :)
"Democracy works only when you vote. When you don't take the time to vote for the candidate you find the least offensive, you run the risk of electing the candidate you find the most offensive."
You're welcome. I don't get to know people that easily but in your case i guess there was an exception and I was just guessing. I'm really surprised that i was so on the mark as to be thanked.
LOL. The lol wasn't meant to imply that you would even think of cracking a smile. It is meant to imply that I find it funny. lol.
While I think it ridiculous that a server won't host his site (the WBC found servers for all of their hate sites), but it isn't technically a freedom of speech thing, because the government isn't involved.
"Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos."
Homer Simpson
I agree with Jsaj and also, what makes this any different then what Christianity used to do, if you didn't believe what they believed? I still see a lot of similarites between the teenage Christianity and the teenage Islam.
Maybe it's just me, this blog doesn't talk about Christianity or Christians or Buddhists or Buddha. Did you read the blog? or you just read the first few lines and made a comment. Where does Christianity fit in any part of it?
No it doesn't. But if we're gonna be on the subject of freedom of speech and islamo-fascism, why not confront the main outcrying group...Christians. All I am saying is that I hear Christians screaming this repeatedly when in actuallity, it reminds me a lot about the middle ages. Even Christians persecuted eachother, like the Kurds and Sunni's of Islam do.
And it really isn't a freedom of speech issue. Because they guy is afraid of retaliation from a religion doesn't mean freedom of speech violation. Sure Muslims need to lighten up, but so do other religios. I'm sure most Muslims are angry because they don't want to be lumped in with Islamic extremists. What ever happened to loving your neighbor? Because grouping all Muslims as violent isn't very loving either.
CNN ran a special on religious extremists- http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2007/gods.warriors/- that was really good. It covered Christian, Islamic, and Jewish extremists. I think it was a good show. Everyone seems to be identifying "religious extremists" with Muslims, and that's just not the case. I agree that stereotyping an entire religion as violent is just not nice and I would throw in uneducated.
Jesus Camp (http://imdb.com/title/tt0486358/) left me a little shaken up because of the methods used to train their "Army of God," to "take back America for Christ." Even though that movie scared me a little, I don't automatically assume that every Christian is part of this Army of God that will take back America for Christ by any means necessary.
-Sonja :)
"Democracy works only when you vote. When you don't take the time to vote for the candidate you find the least offensive, you run the risk of electing the candidate you find the most offensive."
Jesus Camp worried me a little, but mostly i was in tears from lauging at the absurdity of it...like the absurdity of extremism.
YOU GUYS WANT TO TALK ABOUT CHRISTIANITY'S VIOLENCE? YOU GOT IT.
"what makes this any different then what Christianity used to do," I suppose you were referring to the crusades. That quote shows you have absolutely no idea of what they were about. If put in a historical or even circular context it would leave you scratching your head.
Have you seen the Jesus camp movie... have you seen a clip where those kids are encouraged to harm in the slightest way any other person?
WBC on the hand was condemned by every and any Christian in the United States that was asked about it. But you wont refer to that, that's called FILTERING the first style of distorted/irrational thinking there is. P.S This is in no way shape or form meant to insult you, pick up a psychology text book and confirm
"I agree that stereotyping an entire religion as violent is just not nice and I would throw in uneducated."
Guess what if a thousand people do something individually in the name of their religion and you claim the problem is the religion. I would accuse you of stereotyping. If more than half of the religion does or agree with it, i wont accuse you of stereotyping although i would not agree that the religion is the problem. But let that act be known of the founder of the religion and members of the religion be known to do it throughout their existence, then you would be in denial to claim the religion is not the problem. Especially when those who abandon the religion change so drastically from the others.
YOU GUYS WANT TO TALK ABOUT CHRISTIANITY'S VIOLENCE? YOU GOT IT.
"what makes this any different then what Christianity used to do," I suppose you were referring to the crusades. That quote shows you have absolutely no idea of what they were about. If put in a historical or even circular context it would leave you scratching your head.
Have you seen the Jesus camp movie... have you seen a clip where those kids are encouraged to harm in the slightest way any other person?
WBC on the hand was condemned by every and any Christian in the United States that was asked about it. But you wont refer to that, that's called FILTERING the first style of distorted/irrational thinking there is. P.S This is in no way shape or form meant to insult you, pick up a psychology text book and confirm
"I agree that stereotyping an entire religion as violent is just not nice and I would throw in uneducated."
Guess what if a thousand people do something individually in the name of their religion and you claim the problem is the religion. I would accuse you of stereotyping. If more than half of the religion does or agree with it, i wont accuse you of stereotyping although i would not agree that the religion is the problem. But let that act be known of the founder of the religion and members of the religion be known to do it throughout their existence, then you would be in denial to claim the religion is not the problem. Especially when those who abandon the religion change so drastically from the others.
Please, the crusades are far overrated and are more complex than anyone gives them credit for. I was talking about the Spanish Inqusition, Spain's takeover of the Moors, Catholics killing Protestants and vice versa, the death of William Tyndale for printing the Bible in English, and others for the same thing, Martin Luther having to be taken away so that he would not be executed for preaching against the Catholic Church, shall I go on?
I blame certain sects of Christianity for certain things. I blame Christianity and Islam for spouting hatred against homosexuals though, and I am not talking WBC. That is a different story and is still a blight on the church as much as islamo-fascism is a blight on Islam. I would agree that religion mixed with the political power it has, is corrupted and thus a danger to society. If religion wasn't given heirarchy inside itself and stayed out of politics, then I think they'd be fine. But they've opened themselves to corruption and such distortion that the foundation of all religions is unrecognizable.
"I was talking about the Spanish Inqusition, Spain's takeover of the Moors, Catholics killing Protestants and vice versa, the death of William Tyndale for printing the Bible in English, and others for the same thing, Martin Luther having to be taken away so that he would not be executed for preaching against the Catholic Church, shall I go on?"
ALL these things were mostly driven by political agendas, and most of the time it was people promoting their own agendas in the name of the religion. . That was an incident that happened at an isolated time in history.
Guess what? +That kind of violence has not persisted. Showing it isn't an integral part of the religion. +. It happened during times when there was LITTLE regard for human life. Whether you were religious or not +. The founder of the religion was known to be a staunch advocate of peace... i can go on, but shoot, I as a Christian would take responsibility for it
But if i would not filter; if would have to take responsibility for the good things Christianity has done too. The most notable for me in a circular sense are the charities. The YMCA, a Christian charity has more than 30MILLION members supporting hundreds of millions that would ordinarily have no where to turn to around the world. You know what else, there are literally thousands of Christian charities at every level serving people around the world. The red cross has about 97 MILLION people around the world. The inspiration behind it was Henry Dunant. He's family was Calvanist and he was a devout Christian. I would take credit for that too. And many great things Christianity has done including being the pillar of the greatest nation on earth.
You know what else? Those acts of kindness have persisted over the centuries since the beginning of Christianity. This shows to anybody who can judge with a fair mind that those traits are inherently Christian.
Now, how do you compare that to a religion that has held a tradition of violence throughout time. Does it even make sense to you. Where do you begin the comparison, where do you end it?
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"I blame Christianity and Islam for spouting hatred against homosexuals though, and I am not talking WBC. That is a different story and is still a blight on the church as much as islamo-fascism is a blight on Islam."
You would agree with me that the above statement makes no sense. Comparing a practice that has killed hundreds of thousands with a practice that, at worst, has blamed an evil act on a group of people. AT WORST. You show me one Christian does or says anything negative to or about homosexuals and i would show you hundreds of Christian charity acts dedicated to homosexuals with HIV.
"I would agree that religion mixed with the political power it has, is corrupted..."
That too is a statement i believe that has nothing to do with the current topic we're debating. Just so you know, i agree.
You don't see the point do you? The point is that what Islam is doing is just as politically motivated as what happened during those periodes in Christian history. They also happened at the same age of the religion. If 500 years Islam will be just as peaceful as Christianity. Doesn't it say to learn from the past? Well if you're going to learn from the past then you're going to see things that coincide with today, and that is one of them. I don't want you to take the blame, but I don't want you blaming a religion for things that another religion has done in the past. Judaism promoted violence for a long time, and it is peaceful. Christianity was the same way. What makes Islam any less different? Nothing.
Stop playing the we're peaceful card. Homosexuals are still condemned for their sexuality. Hitler was raised Catholic. He killed thousands of homosexuals and millions of Jews. He is even quoted as saying that he'd be Catholic til the day he died. It was politically motivated just like what Islam is doing, is politically motivated. So yes I will compare and act and raise you some in the process.
It has everything to do with this topic. It is the very foundation for this topic. If politics and religion didn't coexist we wouldn't be having the problems with Islam and wouldn't have seen Christianity the way it was in the 1500's. Bin Ladin attacked us because we invaded their homeland, not because we're a Christian nation. That is a falacy and if you listen to his speeches it is the occupation of Saudi Arabia that he retaliated against us for. So that statement has absolutely everything to do with this blog. One more thing, how much you want to bet that Christians would be up in arms about a comic critical of their religion? Many, and I can assume that the person who drew it would be getting death threats from Christian extremists.
Actually, you don't see the point. I'm guessing i wrote the blog and i made the point.
"If 500 years Islam will be just as peaceful as Christianity." That actually proves the point that you don't get it. First, i'm glad that YOU ARE ADMITTING THAT CHRISTIANITY IS "PEACEFUL", which it is. So why would you When assessing a religion or any institution for that matter. The fact that they have consistently done it throughout their history and are still doing it and it is advocated by their holy books says it is an integral part of their system. Guess what Christians in Africa do just as much charity as those in the west. It might not be of the same complexity in terms of amount of resources they have but they still do it. And that is what they have in common with Christians all over the world. During the spanish inquisition, there were Christians in asia who didn't behave as such. So it was isolated to Europe another proof that has nothing to do with the religion.
Guess what islamics around the world have in common. I'm pretty sure you know. So even your "teenage christianity" can be shown to be isolated events. You can't blame the inquistion on Christians any more than i can blame it o the white race. After all it was all performed by white men. But i wont because there were other whites who around the world who didn't take part in it.
"I don't want you to take the blame, but I don't want you blaming a religion for things that another religion has done in the past."
But that's exactly what YOU are doing. Blaming Christianity for something some Catholics did in the past when i'm trying to show you something going on right now. Meanwhile an in dept look shows just how empty your claim is.
The peacefulness of Christianity is NOT a card. It is a FACT. That deserves to be mentioned. If you can mention a violent act committed at an isolated time in history and call an act that was and is still been committed and is shared by the whole religion a card, then maybe we should all talk in cards.
You want to talk about Hitler quotes? Here's one "The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness..." I got it on his page at wikipedia. He was known to practice paganism, he was also known never to attend Christian meetings, you can keep going on reasons Hitler can't be called Christian. But here's a thought for you. When FDR was going to give his D-Day speech, youknow what he ended with? A christian prayer. In fact the prayer was more than half of the whole speech.
"the occupation of Saudi Arabia that he retaliated against us for" You really have no clue about foreign politics do you? Saudi is one of America's best friends in the middle east, as a matter of fact they compete with turkey in their loyalty to us.
Have you ever heard of Jihad? Go look it up, That's the reason why Bin Laden attacked us. And that is the driving force of this whole terrorism thing.
"how much you want to bet that Christians would be up in arms about a comic critical of their religion?"
Do you live in the US? Then you will know what south park is or even family guy. They consistently ridicule Christianity i haven't even seen any christian give them attention talk less of get up in arms.
About the homosexuality issue, when you disagree with something it doesn't mean nyou are being violent to them. That's why we're in the USA. You are free to express your views. And for all i care most Christians couldn't care less where you insert your privates, but that's a whole new issue on it's own which i would be more than willing to debate
Your arguments get more empty the closer i look at it.
2 things.
As for the more wide-spread Islamic violence, we live in the communication era. That technological advancement makes a huge difference.
Also, what's with the word "Islamics"? When did this become a word? (This has really nothing to do with you, since it is widely accepted) The word pisses me off. What ever happened to "Muslims"?
"Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos."
Homer Simpson
Well, i have roots from Africa. And i can tell you quite confidently that as far back as the 1940's and even before then Muslims were known for violence. They dominate most of north West Africa. During the 1980's when my dad worked in Northern Nigeria and had first hand accounts of their violence. Note: in Africa during the 80's there was little or no technological advancement that might have allowed for widespread communications. Even now, it's very limited.
Yes, in poorer places, communication is limited, but compared to the middle ages.... If it takes a week for communication from distant areas.
Take this Cartoon nonsense. In the past, it would have been impossible for those few people who actually wanted to cause trouble to get that information from Denmark to the entire Islamic world at the same time. If it happened when the Inquisition happened, those uprisings would have been much more isolated.
"Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos."
Homer Simpson
Those are all speculations. Maybe the "uprisings" would have been more, maybe not. There is even a debate on whether any the Christians that in the middle east then joined them or not. When the crusaders got to the middle east. But my point is even when the Muslims in Africa didn't have any Europe or America to fight with.They still turned on fellow Africans and murdered them.
So you're telling me that Muslims give no charity whatsoever? I doubt it. All of Europe isn't an isolated event. Actually I can blame the inquisition on Christianity because Protestants wouldn't stand up to the Catholics. It isn't isolated when two sects of Christianity are slaughtering eachother. Even the Shites and Sunni's don't kill as much. I've shown that my claim is not empty at all. Asia in the 1500's wasn't explored much, barely any Christians were there. They were concentrated in Europe. So it truly isn' t isolated at all and it was the two sects of Christianity, not just one, but both sects.
Christianity now is peaceful, Islam is normally peaceful as well. You're argument is very empty because you claim this all to be isolated when it truly is not an isolated incident.
Hitler dabbled in lots of religions, as any sane person I think would until they find the right one. Hitler just happened to be a fucking maniac. I'd don't completely trust the Wiki anymore. I use it a lot but always check the sources, so find that quote from another page. FDR closed a speech in prayer, big deal.
There are many reasons why Bin Laden attacked us. You're overlooking that most of the hijackers were of Saudi descent. They are like Pakistan. I know our foreign policy, but I also know that younger Saudi's are none to happy with our occupation of their country. Jihad is a holy war to drive the infidels out. Infidels can be translated into different meanings. One is religious and the other means occupiers. Even if it is religous, he only wants us out of Middle Eastern countries. Terrorism and all of this is far more complex than you are making it out to be.
Because not only do they mock Christianity, but other religions as well. If you can mock religions fairly, I think that you won't piss people off. If there had been a Christian and Muslim mocking comic, I don't think the outcry would have been as great. Still, we can go back and look at history and see that back in the day, it was called heresy. Islam will eventually lighten up like Christianity has.
I see my argument as filled pretty well. If it was truly empty then you wouldn't be replying because then there would be no need to defend any of this.
I'm not telling you Muslims give no charity, even the devil i'm sure gives charity. I'm telling you to look at those numbers and look at how they've been consistent throughout the history of Christianity. I'm telling you to count the number of lives those acts have saved and those they have touched. No circular, or any other type of government, nor even combination of governments has been able to do that. Now, if anybody compares that to "charity whatsoever" then there are deeper problems. With the person.
Just like i said before i can as well say it is a problem of the white race because they are "concentrated in Europe". Then i'll even throw in some support for that statement by saying in no other race of the world at no other time as committed such crimes in the name of that religion. Even though my argument is yours plus some; and it makes sense, we both know it isn't right, do you agree?
You can give your theories on why Bin Laden attacked us. They're all speculations, but all Muslims have a responsibility to pave the way for their God destroying all infidels in other words all non-muslims. All Christians have a responsibility to love all those hate them. That i can even prove to you was what caused the first crusade. My proof will however, support my former theory that it was a Caucasian crime not a Christian one.
Yes, they mock Muslims as well as Christians and nobody throws tantrums which is the basis of the blog in the first place. Nobody makes the kind of outcry that is been made now because those cartoons are broadcasted in the United States. Europe can't dare put those shows on the air, for the fear of Muslims. In Arabia, which is the home front of the Muslims those shows(the one mocking muslim figures) can't be aired either, i'm guessing i don't need to tell you why. It's only in the West that you can have such programs, at least before the Muslims took over Europe. Now, it's only in America that you can find it.
About Islam lightening up as Christianity has, goes back to the same point of fundamentals. In every institution there are fundamentals/basics. In the U.S, we call it the constitution(a biblical document if you ask me). Times will pass, leaders will pass, what will never pass are the pillars/basics of the institution. The future generations will keep going back to check what the foundations are. Now, Christians throughout time have consistently done it. For Christianity it is love. And it shows itself in the form of what can be identified with Christians since the beginning of Christianity. Islam, since the beginning of time, has shown that violence is something it very much believes in. Christianity didn't loosen up, it has always been like that, although like anything that has existed for thousands of years there have been bad elements. So never ever again make the comparison.
P.S: There are even doubts if the Christians in Asia whom the first crusade was meant to save even supported the crusade.
Lmao, I don't believe in the devil, but I'm pretty sure he wouldn't give charity. That was a good joke right there.
What about lives that other religions save with their charity? Buddhism is a major one.
I can only somewhat agree to that statement. But it was white on white hate there, not racial hate, but religious hate toward one another. Thus showing the corruption of organized religion, which includes Islam and Bin Laden.
I don't like using the Crusades. Jews paved the way to Israel in bloodshed, what makes Islam different? Like I said, they'll grow out of it just as Christianity and Judaism did.
Partially I see you point. Even though I have a friend who travels extensively and has watched these shows on TV stations in Europe and the Middle East. I also have a friend who lives in India who watches those shows and there is never an outcry because they realize it is humor, however political comics are different. Family Guy and South Park are only partly political, but mostly just vulgar.
Judaism has show violence since the beginning of time, what makes them different from Islam? Christians have consistently been peaceful after the "teenage" period, as have Judaism and Islam. Three religions with one God, the only reason Christianity is different is the belief in Jesus, which can easily be seen as a political move to seperate Christianity from their violent brothers, yet it only did before and after the teenage years. I will make that comparison because the underlying foundations for Christianity fall in both the New and Old Testament and the Old Testament is full of violence and hate which is what Judaism, Islam and Christianity have been full of at least once before.
There were only miniscule amounts of Christians in Asia, not enough for the Crusades. At least in my opinion.
I didn't accuse them of racism, and many times those "converso" that were been murdered weren't even white, but i didn't accuse them of racism. Those killing blacks in Sudan are black and it doesn't make it right.Neither does it mean the black race is the problem.
If you throw Juadism into the argument then we would have to go to those times and put it in perspective,
"Christians have consistently been peaceful after the "teenage" period, as have Judaism and Islam." Christians weren't peaceful after your so-called ""teenage" period" they were peaceful before during and after the period. On the contrary Muslims have been violent from birth, if you will, i wonder when they'll get into adulthood, but i have an impression it isn't anytime soon.
By the way there hasn't been any alternative to Christianity that has wrked as well as Christianity. That includes atheism.
The actual Islamic definition of Jihad is to strive or to struggle. It DOES NOT mean Holy War. The strife and struggle is about an internal war, if you will, toward self-improvement, moral cleansing, and intelligence.
Just to be clear, Jews, Christians, and Muslims do pray to the same deity, only different names. Another clarification: NOT ALL MUSLIMS ARE VIOLENT OR HATEFUL.
Islamic law is not only a religion, it is a complete way of life, including politics. Not all Muslims subscribe to this way of thinking, hence the emigration to secular countries where they are free to practice their own religion. Of course, not all people still in these religion-controlled countries are a part of this, what you have misinterpreted, jihad..
-Sonja :)
"Democracy works only when you vote. When you don't take the time to vote for the candidate you find the least offensive, you run the risk of electing the candidate you find the most offensive."
"Jihad is to strive" Duuuuuuuh. Prop is something used to support another thing. When i say props guess what i'm reffering to??? To claim that Muslims and Christians pray to the same God is ridiculous. Brits and Nigerians may use the same word for food. But when they say food their most likely not talking about thing.
All three- Jews, Christians, and Muslims- have a basis in the old testament, and they all pray to the same deity. I've studied a lot of religions, and I suggest that before you completely denounce this fact, you do some studying as well. Rent this episode of 30 Days: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0769782/. It's about Muslims and America. Maybe it will open your eyes a little bit.
-Sonja :)
"Democracy works only when you vote. When you don't take the time to vote for the candidate you find the least offensive, you run the risk of electing the candidate you find the most offensive."
If you've studied religion as much as you claim you have, then you'll know that most of Islam is basically plagarism of Christianity. You'll also know that Islam has a lot to do with paganism and idolatry, and that the main reason why the word Allah became the one used for God in the middle east was the Islamic political influence.
Do you know what idolatry is? It's a sin in all Abrahamic religions regarding images. Christians go against this, in praying to crosses, statues, whatever. And where is the paganism in Islamic beliefs? Plagiarism of Christianity? Explain this.
The reason that the Islamic religion is political is because Muslims running countries base laws on religious Doctrine instead of making religion personal and individualistic. Sometimes it happens here, which goes against our own freedom of religion.
-Sonja :)
"Democracy works only when you vote. When you don't take the time to vote for the candidate you find the least offensive, you run the risk of electing the candidate you find the most offensive."
It's amazing that you don't know the Koran is purely plagarism of the bible with a lot of alterations. Have you studied it, and considered the timeline it was written? Christians don't pray to crosses, if some Christians stand before a cross or anything, which may be a symbol that reminds them of their biblical heroes, that's just what it is, not praying to that thing. I can open my bible to the book of Daniel and leave it there while praying because it reminds me of how Daniel prayed when he was in the situation i was. If i had a poster of Daniel, and and go to where it is and it does the same, you are kidding yourself to say i'm praying to the poster.
But then, some people call themselves Christians and literally pray to statues which is of course explicitly condemned in the 10 commandments so if you find it know it isn't Christian.
There's too much you don't know about Islam, i don't blame you; there's too much the Muslims themselves don't know.
There are a few sources i can give you but here's a relatively brief one: http://www.btwol.
com
/Library/
Articles/List%
20of%20
articles/Is%
20Allah%
20the%20
name%
20of%20
God.htm
I'm not surprise you sent me a Christian link to tell me about the evils of Islam. Some sects in Christianity have misinterpreted the bible to preach white power and anti-gay rhetoric, often knowingly causing violence. The leaders of certain sects of Islam have misinterpreted the Qur'an to preach violence. Both know this is taking advantage of believers, but it's the best way to get people on "their side."
I've taken a few world religion classes as well as a class on Militant Religions. It wasn't all about Islam. We talked about the dangers of misinterpreting Holy Books and doctrine. All religions have a history of that. You apparently refuse to admit that most Muslims are NOT violent, so you can't be hypocrite and decide that Christianity is a non-violent religion. What about violence, murders, and bombings at abortion clinics in the name of God?
-Sonja :)
"Democracy works only when you vote. When you don't take the time to vote for the candidate you find the least offensive, you run the risk of electing the candidate you find the most offensive."
Neither am i surprised that all you saw was the fact that the link was a Christian one, even though all the references in there were to circular sources and encyclopedias. As a matter of fact, i intentionally sent you that one first. I'll send you another one. http://www.
islam-watch
.org/Abu
lKase
m/Bis
miAlla
h/1a.htm
and you bet i still have more,
I believe religion is a myth. All religions. Nobody fought a war over not being religious, but many people have caused violence, injustice, death, and war in the name of their deity. My point has been that you continue to make the same point- all Muslims are violent and Islam is evil. At least, that's the point I got from you.
I believe that Holy Books- Bible, Torah, Qur'an, etc- are mythologies. It is social and political control and stories to explain what science could not explain at the time.
I can find a number of sites online that claim to be true about the evils of every religion, and it does not make any of them true. I can also find plenty of sites that promote hate through Holy Books, especially the Bible. These books were written in a way that people can perceive different meanings- any meaning they want.
-Sonja :)
"Democracy works only when you vote. When you don't take the time to vote for the candidate you find the least offensive, you run the risk of electing the candidate you find the most offensive."
There are various reasons why we are having to deal with this over and over again, some know and probably experienced this well and enough before...
Wake up.....
It's crappy but then again, it will probably piss some people off.
It's offline again....
Amazing times we live,
All of this masquerade about being!
Free speech everywhere is under attack even in our own country. We can not express our feelings or thoughts without being shot down as a biggot.
Published Author and Poet
Teacher Education Student.
..is that along with your right to express your opinions, is the right of others to call you a bigot. It's another opinion. The trick is for everyone to disagree without turning it into a shouting match.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman