I am Pro Life 100%
Just so you know where I am on that. I will NEVER change my mind on that. There is nothing that can be said that will make me ever condone it.
If you don't want to have children, please don't have sex!!
If you don't want children and you want to have sex at least be responsible and give the child to someone who wants a baby.
I am sure there are girls and women out there that are raped and end up pregnant. That is very unfortunate and very sad. It is also played upon by planned parenthood hugely.
So is the whole line of "if it threatens the life of the mother."
from statistics I have seen:
Only 1% are performed because of rape or incest;
1% because of fetal abnormalities
3% due to the mother's health problems
That leaves 95% done for convience.
Part of the problem as I see it is the government is so wrapped up in adoptions that it is very difficult to adopt an unwanted child. The cost of it is outrageous!
If adoptions were more easily attained in this country alot more women would choose to have their child live.
I feel so sad for the young women who find themselves in these sorts of situations. All the pressures from everyone to make the choice. To me it is very unfair for someone to put the young girls into that sort of situation.
I personally am good friends with a woman who had to make the choice. It is very emotionally damaging to have an abortion.
At the time her boyfriend and her didn't want to have children and her parents didn't want her to have a baby. They said that they were probably not even going to be together long enough for the baby to have a stable home. And her parents certainly didn't want to have to raise the baby. So she made the choice.
Today they have been together 30 years. They have 3 other children and an adopted one. But the aborted one they regret to this day.
I have had 7 live children. Every one precious to me. I have had 2 miscarriages and almost lost my 7th. He was born at 30 weeks gestation that is 2 months early. He weighed 4#. Then he lost weight. Well, any way. I say that because I am experienced in child bearing. That is why I am pro life. I know what a baby is and looks like from pictures of babies that my doctor gave me. I have seen and heard the baby's heart and 4 weeks pregnant.
Tell me that what was in my tummy was just a lump or mass of tissue planned parenthood!
That is a lie from the devil herself!
I am very passionate about this and I am very passionate about helping women who find themselves in trouble.
There are Pregnancy help centers all across the beloved country that want to help. You just have to find one.
Children are a blessing just as we were blessings to our parents.
It is terrible to see the amount of abortions done in this country for the sake of convience.
Using murder as a birth control method is unexceptable.
We should ban abortion except for the rare cases. We need to teach abstinence.
To the women who are in trouble there is help out there. Just ask for it..
Just so we are clear, I am not judgemental toward women who have had abortions. I feel bad for you who have had them.
I hope I covered everything I wanted to. Oh, I thought of something.
Being pro choice means you don't care if someone else has an abortion and they should have a right to have one.
Being pro life means you do care if someone has an abortion and there is no question in the mind as to choosing to have a baby or not. It is just a fact. You are going to have a baby!
I agree completely and I support you whole-heartedly for speaking up on such a heated issue because so many people believe the opposite and will challenge your ideas. Abortion is the silent holocaust. If these children were killed by anyone else, it would be murder, but when the mom does it, suddenly that makes it okay? No. We kill 46 million babies each year through abortion in our country alone. So many babies...imagine all the people they could have became. Maybe one of them would have invented a cure for cancer, y'know? Abortion is SO wrong...
"Abortion is the silent holocaust."
As a human I am offended by the comparison of abortion to the holocaust.
I am appauled by your comments. You are ** I don't mean that rudely. Ignorant isn't bad. It is a lack of information. I may be a tad rude on the immature part.
**(Edited by Fallon for Terms of Service violation)
I'm not ignorant of the holocaust. Why don't you read ANYTHING on it, or even look at pictures if reading is too much for you. I think killing an unborn child, that probably can't even feel pain and lack the mental capabilities to even realize what is going on. It is absolutely nothing compared to the mental and physical genocide of a people, and the atrocity that the world stood by and let it happen.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/monsters (stop on by!)
aww you said "probably" cannot feel pain. Which means you have no clue what you are talking about.
Yes, the holocaust was a terrible thing that people stood by and let happen until America saved the day.
People are standing by silently and turning their heads as millions of people die every year due to abortion. And some how this is okay???
We loose soldiers in wars and people like you complain that they are dying for no reason. Yet, millions die and it doesn't bother you in the slightest. You claim you are concerned for the starving. What do you care? Really!
You are full of double standards like others I have seen. And a huge **
(Edited by Fallon for ToS violation)
I never said I was concerned for the starving. I said I was concerned for the world. It doesn't matter want anyone's opinions are in the most case, because the great majority aren't in a position to change anything. But the overpopulation issue is something people can change. They can stop having babies.
And caring comes in degrees. In a perfect world abortion wouldn't be an issue, but this isn't a perfect world. I may care about unborn children, but I care much more for the anguish of a starving man.
I am turning my head away from this matter of unimportance, a murder (if it is one) of the lowest degree, and I am turning my head to much more real issues that are world threating.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/monsters (stop on by!)
Well thanks for posting.
You are so right. I agree it is very wrong. Thanks for posting a comment :) You encouraged me too.
And maybe 20 of them would have been the next Hitler, Stalin, etc. And the other millions would have been just your average joe... moving through life with no care in the world.
~C
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you made a good point about who should be allowed to have abortions. Good word choice on a sensitive matter and I liked your anecdote.
Thanks so much. I am encouraged :)
There are over 6 billion people in this world and a great majority of them wish they weren't. Forget the baby, the chemicals in your brain telling you to love tiny alien-shaped humans, forget religious reasons, forget most of your argument, and think about this: People only abort unwanted children, and why would you let an unwanted child be born and probably have even a crappier life than most people. We are taking up too much room on the planet, WE ARE OUT OF ROOM!! This is not a "we are out of room so please go have your baby in the manger" situation, this is a situation without a manger. Giving away babies does not solve the problem. Listen: for God's sake, if someone is unselfish enough not to bring another person into this world because their brain-chemicals tell them to, let them! Don't have kids. You are ruining the world for the people already born, and the people yet to be born.
"People should be changed by world wars, else what are world wars for?" ~ Voonnegut
We are not out of room. That is so old! It is crowded in cities. But not the country. Your whole post was umm so ridiculous. You are parroting the media. Take a look for yourself for once.
Are you kidding me? Room doesn't mean being able to physically place people on the surface of the Earth. You have to have room for food production. Starvation and pollution are serious problems due to overpopulation.
You are parroting whoever told you what you think. If you are going to tell me I'm wrong, please back up what you say and don't just shoot down what I say.
Thanks!
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/monsters (stop on by!)
I am not the one parroting the media here. Now, am I? Why don't you back up your comments with some facts. I would like to see this "starvation" and the bull crap about "pollution" What a crock.
Again over population in CITIES!!
You are parroting Al Gore. It is so, so, sad!
You have been brainwashed.
Think for yourself.
Pollution:
http://www.freefoto.com/images/13/08/13_08_3---Industry-Liquid-Pollution...
http://www.lizasreef.com/HOPE%20FOR%20THE%20OCEANS/Images%20HFTO/galvest...
Starvation:
http://www.worldproutassembly.org/images/starvation.jpg
http://peacecorpsonline.org/messages/jpeg/starvingchildaa.jpg
http://www.alwayswow.com/archive/Starvation.jpg
Holocaust: (In case you didn't know)
http://shalomrav.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/holocaust2.jpg
I posted all picture links so it should be easy for you to quickly see them. I figured you wouldn't want to be bogged down with too much reading.
In case you do want to read something:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starvation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overpopulation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollution
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/monsters (stop on by!)
You just proved my point. You are a **. Thank you!
(Edited by Fallon for ToS violation)
You tell me to back my stance up with facts.
I do so.
I am parrot?
If parrots can read news and browse the internet then so be it.
All you have argued is that I am a parrot, although a parrot cannot type. Where are your facts madam?
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/monsters (stop on by!)
Ha, I was unfair on that point. what facts do you want?
You should probably support:
A. Why abortion is murder. (factually)
B. Why bringing a kid into the world is more important than overpopulation
C. Why overpopulation and starvation don't exist
D. How to support this many people in the world so that everyone can have 7 kids (20 billion people next generation!)
E. Just general facts about why you support your position. (whatever misc. information you would like to include.)
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/monsters (stop on by!)
I wanted to say to this as far as the pictures go. How does that prove your point?
As for starvation in other countries I agree that is happening and is very terrible. But I ask myself and you, Why are these children and people starving? It is usually their government that is doing it to them. We send alot of food over there to help.
I don't see anyone starving in America.
http://www.youthnoise.com/page.php?page_id=421
~C
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I think everyone can agree that we want to live in a world in which abortions wouldn't be necessary. Even us pro-choice people agree to that.
However, in order for the number of abortions to be reduced, contraception must be widely available. Unfortunately, the same people who want to ban abortion also want to make contraception difficult to obtain.
I think we all have to get over and accept the fact that having sex is a biological imperative, and it doesn't matter what your or my personal beliefs are: people are always going to do it. So making the argument "you shouldn't have sex" is really not logical, nor thought provoking, either.
Until contraception can be made more widely available, abortions will keep occuring. If we have laws that ban abortions, back-alley abortions will once again be the norm.
There are alot of contraceptives available. Who wants to make them not available?
I think abortion isn't and shouldn't be used for contraceptive purposes.
I didn't say that abortion should be used for contraceptive purposes.
I'm talking about condoms and birth control. Birth control in particular has gotten harder to come by. You, as someone who is older, have probably not had to experience that. There are lots of places where someone has to be 18 in order to get contraception, and there are many more doctors who flat out refuse. In high school, the education isn't that great regarding birth control, either. It has been proven that sex ed and better education reduces the rates of abortion.
Thanks for the information. I had never heard that before. That is dumb if it isn't available to kids under 18. Why tell kids to practice safe sex if contraception isn't available? I will look into that further. Again thanks for the information.
Well, as I;m sure you know, I disagree with a lot of it. One thing I do agree with is that abortion should be made a lot easier (also the quality of life for kids in the system should be much better). I also agree that that could lower abortion rates and I agree that would be a good thing. That being said, I don't think early and midterm abortions should be outlawed.
"-bah!! Pardon the "bah!" I feel several "bahs!", but out of courtesy I only say one."
H.P. Lovecraft
I don't believe abortion should be outlawed in it's entirety. Like I said in the RARE cases. Which are about 5 %.
It is done 95% of the time for convience. I believe it is morally wrong. Just like it is morally wrong to murder someone wallking by on the street.
What you see as a matter of convenience is, for others, a matter of great importance. It depends on your perspective.
"-bah!! Pardon the "bah!" I feel several "bahs!", but out of courtesy I only say one."
H.P. Lovecraft
EXACTLY. Women don't abort just because they'd prefer to get a mani/pedi instead of give birth. Women don't abort just because they'd rather have a D&C than invest in some $5 condoms. Abortions are EXPENSIVE and a whole lot of people don't even have basic health insurance -- and some heath insurance plans won't cover it anyway. Women don't abort because they have insatiable sexual appetites and don't want a pregnancy to get in the way of their hedonistic adventures. There are a million different reasons and I guarantee you that each and every one of these so-called "convenient excuses" are incredibly important to the woman who chooses to have an abortion.
She doesn't have health insurance. She doesn't have enough money. She isn't healthy enough. She's in an abusive or otherwise unstable relationship. She's in law school and will be taking the bar in 6 months. She doesn't want to bring up a child in this war-filled world. She's 52 years old and will likely have life-threatening complications, both for her and the fetus. Her parents will put her on the street if they find out she's ever had sex. Some women already have a kid or two and choose to have an abortion because having another child is not an option at that point -- there just isn't enough love or money to go around and by choosing to have an abortion, she is able to provide a better life for the children that are already thinking feeling born people.
And here's the kicker: some women just flat-out don't want a baby. Pro-lifers seem to think that's a silly frivolous reason to not have a baby, but god, it seems like a good reason to me.
Every single baby born into this world should be a WANTED baby. Life is hard, no matter how loving the parent is, so why would anyone want to make things worse from day one? Pro-lifers lament the the tragedy of aborted "children" but I think it's a million times more tragic to force a woman to give birth and raise a child that she does not want. Seems pretty heartless and cruel to force a mother's resentment onto a child. Choosing to have an abortion when you are incapable of providing a nurturing, loving environment for a child is not a stupid reason. It's being RESPONSIBLE.
And by the way, you have children. You know firsthand that your body undergoes extreme changes and giving birth is not a walk in the park. Having a child is an incredibly difficult thing to do, even in America, even with great health insurance, even with a loving and supportive partner, even with money as no object, even when you really, really want to actually have a baby. It's HARD. And telling a woman to give up 9 months of her life and body (and quite possibly her life because yes it does happen and yes it happens in America and yes it happens to otherwise healthy and privileged women) for a baby that she's expected to hand off and never see again is pretty cruel.
You're right in saying that some women feel pain and regret the decision. Some do. Others briefly think of that fertilized egg and wonder for a moment, then go on about life. Some never think of it again after the anesthesia wears off. But guess what? Some women feel emotional pain after giving birth. In fact, a whole lot of them do. I'm sure you've heard of postpartum depression, right? So what, should we ban childbirth just because some women have trouble dealing with the aftermath? No. We should just be open and available and help those women get the emotional support they need. The same goes for post-abortive women who regret the decision. Some women will deal with depression after having an abortion. Some women will deal with depression after having a child. Every person is different and most of the time, it's completely unpredictable.
It comes down to one thing: I trust women. I trust every woman to make the responsible choice for her life. I don't need a father-knows-best judge looking out for me, telling me that, well, gee, I might feel real sad if I have an abortion so I'm not allowed to have one. I don't need a fire-and-brimstone believer telling me I should just keep my legs shut or else suffer the consequences. I trust myself. I trust other women.
You have 7 children. That's the decision YOU made for YOUR life. I choose not to have children right now, possibly ever. That's the decision I am making for MY life. I will never fight for laws that impede your personal choice to have children. Why do you fight for laws that overrule my choice to NOT have children?
By the way, so far, all research indicates that the earliest a fetus could maybe **possibly** feel pain is in the 20th week. Even if it did "feel pain" from the second the sperm hit the egg, the anesthesia they use on the woman has the same numbing effect on every organ and tissue in her body, including fetal tissue. But you know what we know for sure? A grown human woman DOES feel pain. So why does fetal tissue always get more consideration than an actual thinking, feeling woman?
If we could reward stars to good comments, I'd give you 5.
It has indeed become too easy for people to extrapolate their life experiences to others and suggest that any other option must simply be wrong.
Well you wrote a good comment!
I do believe in birth control which I had not stated in the original piece.
Yes, there are many many reasons to not have children and you pointed out some reasons for that.
However, abortion isn't a birth control method but everyone seems to think it is. And use it as such.
There are many forms of birth control so if you don't ever want to have a baby use them.
I am the furthest thing from a fire and brimstone kind of gal.
Why is it wrong to murder your neighbor though?
I agree in the early stages of pregnancy the fetus feels not much if anything, however, most abortions don't occur during those first weeks before the brain has developed.
I cannot stand partial birth abortion. That is horrid to me.
Having a baby is as bad as you made it seem but I will grant you each woman is different. I handled it perfectly fine. Others, may not.
I think most your reasons are excuses to have an abortion when there are other options out there.
"However, abortion isn't a birth control method but everyone seems to think it is. And use it as such."
I really highly, highly doubt that anything even close to a significant number of abortions are given to people who view it just as birth control.
"I cannot stand partial birth abortion. That is horrid to me."
Agreed.
"Why is it wrong to murder your neighbor though?"
They're living human beings with personalities, minds, dreams, goals, aspirations. Even if a baby doesn't have all those things, per se, it does have sentience. It is a thinking human being.
"What a man does for pay is of little significance. What he is, as a sensitive instrument responsive to the world's beauty, is everything!"
H. P. Lovecraft
I don't think in most cases that it is a matter of perspective.
What you consider important, another person might not. What you consider trivial may seem, to some, as matters of the highest importance.
"What a man does for pay is of little significance. What he is, as a sensitive instrument responsive to the world's beauty, is everything!"
H. P. Lovecraft
I know you all mean well, and I agree that almost all abortions are certainly tragic, but the basic question of the legality of abortion in this country is a matter of settled law. I know there are a great many well meaning folks who would like for you to believe otherwise, but they don't really know what they're talking about. There really is no indication that our Courts are changing direction on this issue...the weight of the precedents are just too great.
It doesn't matter if a woman decides to have an abortion because she raped, or because she think the baby will give her stretch marks. The whole point is that she has a legal, constitutionally protected right to make that choice for herself, on her own terms and for her own reasons. You may not like those reasons (and frankly, I don't like some of those reasons, either), but what you and I like aren't relevant. You are not a party to the question, and you really don't get to have an opinion (at least, not one that matters) about the choices that these women make.
If you really want to help prevent abortions, you would do better to do as many of us pro-choicers, and try to provide women who are questioning their desire to continue a pregnancy with the non-judgmental support and resources to choose life, rather than calling them murderers and stigmatizing them during a period that is often quite painful and frightening enough without your "help."
Abortion isn't going away in this country. Its time to get over it.
percivale
-------------------------
Check out Progressive PRIDE, a Gay-Straight Alliance for the Progressive U community.
There was no question as to whether it was legal or not. Of course it is legal.
I have never called a woman who has had one a murderer.
I try to encourage where I can. And there are plenty of resources out there that encourage a woman to choose life.
Then your railing against the practice seems misplaced. Since the practice of induced abortion is and is likely to remain legal, the only effective way to advance the goal of fewer abortions is to help women to make a different choice. Attacking them and ranting about the issue is just so much static on the internet.
Perhaps not directly to their faces and in so many words, but when you say things like, "using murder as a birth control method is unexceptable," you are making that implication in no uncertain terms.
If you really want to effect change, then supporting those resources with your time and money are your best option.
percivale
-------------------------
Check out Progressive PRIDE, a Gay-Straight Alliance for the Progressive U community.
I rail against the practice of abortion. I again have never blamed a woman and called her murderer. I am against planned parenthood and anyone who promotes abortion. Which typically are people who have never had one or they are male. It may seem off balance but in my mind it isn't. having an abortion is hard enough on a girl. And to have someone call her names after it has been done is just mean. Planned parenthood and others who promote it think it is perfectly harmless in all aspects of an abortion. They lie to the woman who have them done.
Who are you to say the only time and money toward resources are my best option?
*bop*
Planned Parenthood is not JUST an abortion clinic. It's also a place to, guess what, PLAN YOUR PARENTHOOD. You can get birth control, and prenatal visits there.
None of us are telling women to go out and get an abortion. We're simply saying that you going and calling abortion murder, shunning those that are thinking of having an abortion, etc, is not right. Some women need to have an abortion. It is rare, but it does occur. Many 'pro-lifers' want to ban abortion because they see it as murder. Pro-choicers want to keep the option open, and just encourage other things, like better use of birth control, pre-natal support, adoption, etc.
~C
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what is *bop*? I know what planned parenthood is. I am not an idiot. I don't want to ban abortion. I think that abortion should be allowed for the rare cases. Pro choice and pro life have simliar missions. There are some hard core pro lifer's out there. I am not one of them. I am as I said 100% pro life. But not to the extent of protesting outside clinics and such.
I'm sorry, but you have done exactly that here, and in at least one of your other blogs. Here are a few of your recent comments...
"Using murder as a birth control method is unexceptable."
"It is done 95% of the time for convience. I believe it is morally wrong. Just like it is morally wrong to murder someone wallking by on the street."
"Pro abortion is what it is. Pro choice. I am pro life. Is there any other term for Pro life? People just don't want to see that Pro abortion is murder no matter how you look at so you will just say it nicer so we don't have to feel so bad for killing tax payers who could have helped those who are poor but instead they are DEAD! "
"I believe it is a play on words. Either way it is condoning murder of children."
For someone who isn't calling the women who have abortion "murderers," you sure seem to like to throw around the term "murder." Frankly, your evasion is completely disingenuous.
Why do you think that Planned Parenthood promotes abortion? Honestly, I would be surprised if you have ever even visited a Planned Parenthood website to see what they have to say on the subject. From Planned Parenthood's main website...
"If you are trying to decide if abortion is the right choice for you, you probably have many things to think about. Learning the facts about abortion may help you in making your decision. You may also want to learn more about parenting and adoption."
(LINK)
What are my choices?
You have three choices if you are pregnant.
You can choose to have a baby and raise the child.
You can choose to have a baby and place the child for adoption.
You can choose to end the pregnancy.
There is no right or wrong choice for everyone. Only you can decide which choice is right for you. But deciding may not feel easy to do — there is a lot to think about.
(LINK)
Then, you might want to take a closer look at your presentation, because own comments have been far from compassionate.
Once again, I would suggest that there ARE some lies being told in this situation, but it is not the ones you accuse who are guilty of it. From Planned Parenthood's main website...
How Safe Are Abortion Procedures?
Safety is an important and common concern for women. Abortion procedures are very safe. But there are risks with any medical procedure. The risks increase the longer you are pregnant. They also increase if you have sedation or general anesthesia. Possible risks include
an allergic reaction
blood clots in the uterus
incomplete abortion — part of the pregnancy is left inside the uterus
infection
injury to the cervix or other organs
undetected ectopic pregnancy
very heavy bleeding
Most often, these complications are simple to treat with medicine or other treatments.
In extremely rare cases, very serious complications may be fatal.
(LINK)
It sounds like you're just regurgiating opinions that have been fed to you through religiously-motivated, anti-choice sources. In reality, Planned Parenthood keeps the decision of whether to have an abortion or not where it belongs...fully in the hands of the expectant mother.
It just stands to reason. At its most basic level, the legality of induced abortion is a settled fact. There is no indication that the Courts are going to do a 180 degree turn on the issue, and as such you really need to come to grips with the fact that women do in fact have a right to make this choice, regardless of how much it upsets you. Since this is the case, the only effective option remaining which could possibly result in fewer abortions is to engage the women who are considering the option, and empower them to make a different choice.
You may spend your time and money however you wish, but if your goal is to elimiate abortion, you might as well give it up...your efforts are essentially futile, barring a major rewrite of the relevant sections of our Constitution (which also is very unlikely). If your goal is to reduce the number of abortions performed each year, well...I don't think you're going to convince many of the women who are seriously considering the option by being dismissive of their situations and accusing them of murder their children.
percivale
-------------------------
Check out Progressive PRIDE, a Gay-Straight Alliance for the Progressive U community.
I have used he word murder in my blog alot. But as I said, I wouldn't walk up to someone and yell at them "MURDERER"
Making someone aware of what abortion is isn't a crime nor is it mean or calling them murderer.
I am not a cold hearted person which you try to make me out to be all the time.
You are claiming that I am regurgitating someone else. Which as a matter of fact I am not. I have read and studied and gone to seminars about it. I don't have just one place or person that I have heard my information from.
You are doing the same thing regurgitating what you have learned Quit trying to make me look like I am sort of idiot. What is learning Percivale? You listen to other people and weigh out the information.
You go to different people and places and books and grab what you have learned and post it as if it were your own idea.
You are trying to bully me by telling me none of what I have said will make a difference.I disagree.
You want me to agree with you and I just won't do it.
You keep saying it's legal it's legal it's legal. It is never going to change. I DON"T CARE IF IT IS LEGAL!!! It isn't about being legal.
It is a moral issue and I will say that forever.
Claiming that I have no compassion is ridiculous. You don't know me. I haven't talked to a single person on here that has said they have had an abortion. They probably wouldn't tell me if they had for fear of persecussion. But I am telling you here and now I wouldn't persecute them. What is done is done. My making someone feel terrible after the fact is wrong and I swear I have never done that.
You are trying to make me out to be horrible and that isn't nice and it hurts my feelings.
I know what planned parenthood is about. I have been there with one of my friends. I have read their website. They are a big supporter of choice. So qouting their website is pointless.
You are judging my character. I didn't ask for your opinion about my character.
Being pro-choice is not about making abortions super fun. Pro-choice people aren't having abortion parties and drinking mimosas in post-op. Pro-choice people aren't stopping happily pregnant women from having babies and you know what? Pro-choice people aren't making unhappily pregnant women abort.
A whole lot of pro-choicers have never had an abortion. It isn't like a prerequisite for being a feminist or something. I haven't had one. I don't plan on having one because I don't plan on being in the 0.02% whose birth control fails. But no one plans on having an abortion. It's a fall back option. It's a "when everything else fails" thing.
Being pro-choice is about having a CHOICE. It's not about encouraging abortion or murdering children. It's about CHOICE.
It's about making abortion safe, legal, accessible and rare.
Have you considered that there are members of ProU who have had an abortion? You have accused these women of "using murder as birth control." The fact that you aren't face to face with them when you said it doesn't really mitigate the nature of your comments.
Your opinion of "what abortion is" doesn't seem all that reasonable to me, and your use of inflamatory rhetoric makes it difficult for me to give your claim to being a nice person much credit. If you're going to make inflammatory accusations, you really shouldn't be surprised when people get "fired up" in response.
Well...enlighten us. What are the books you have read, the sources you have studied, and especially what are the seminars you have attended?
The difference, I suspect, is that I have studied this issue from both perspectives, before deciding on my current position. So far, nothing that you have said would lead me to believe that your "study" of this subject is particularly objective.
I am simply stating a fact. The Supreme Court of the United States has ruled that the broad practice of induced abortion is legal. As that is the case, your ranting accomplishes nothing except to alienate people from your point of view.
We shall see.
You can say it until you turn blue, and it won't stop anyone from getting an abortion if that is what they feel they need to do. If you want to do that, you need to stop accusing people and start trying to help them instead.
I can only judge you based on your comments, which have been judgemental, accusatory and inflamatory...but not compassionate. You have already accused any woman who might come forward of condoning murder. You say you wouldn't persecute a woman who might come forward and talk about having had an abortion, but your comments thus far tell a very different story.
Tough...I stopped be interested in your feelings when you decided to designate everyone who doesn't agree with you as being pro-murder.
It isn't pointless to note when someone is saying something that isn't true. You said that Planned Parenthood "promotes abortion." I pointed out that this was not true, and provided the resource to prove that your statement was false. You said that Planned Parenthood felt that abortion was "perfectly harmless in all aspects." I pointed out that this is not true, and provided the resource to prove that your statement was false. You said that Planned Parenthood "lie[s] to the women" who have abortion, but in fact it is YOU who have been caught bending the truth.
And none of us asked for you judge our character, either...but you did when you accused us of condoning murder, and I think that a dose of your own medicine is exactly what you need. If you don't like having YOUR character held up for others to judge, perhaps you should take a step back and refrain from judging the character of others.
Quid Pro Quo.
percivale
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Check out Progressive PRIDE, a Gay-Straight Alliance for the Progressive U community.
I have a question for you -- do you believe in using birth control? The choices you seem to have listed are:
a) If you have sex, have a baby and keep it!
b) If you have sex, have a baby and give it way!
c) If you don't want to give birth then don't have sex!
That seems pretty idealistic to me. Not every person is going to be abstinent until marriage. In fact, surprise! Most aren't. Even couples who wait until marriage before getting to second-base don't always want 7 or 8 kids. And even the ones who DO want 7 or 8 kids might like to wait until they're a little more financially secure.
So do you agree with the use birth control? After all, it doesn't destroy a fetus -- it just prevents an egg from being fertilized. Or would you say that birth control is nearly the same as abortion?
Also, I wonder why you said "That is a lie from the devil herself!" Women aren't evil. Women aren't the devil. If you're going to follow tradition by saying god is male, then why break tradition and make the devil female? I guess I probably shouldn't get all up in arms about something small like that, but I was just wondering.
I do believe birth control is a good thing. I just forgot to list that. Thanks for pointing it out.
About the devil herself part. I meant that as a sarcastic comment toward feminists who started the whole right to chose thing.
I do believe the devil for real is of the male gender.
If it weren't for feminists, you wouldn't be in college right now. Feminists are just people who believe crazy idea that women are PEOPLE, flawed and wonderful, no better and no worse than men, and should be treated equally in all respects.
It wasn't that long ago that women weren't allowed to go to college. You wouldn't be allowed to drive a car. You wouldn't be allowed to divorce an abusive husband. Your male doctor would be allowed to deign any feelings or attitude you expressed as female hysteria. It wasn't that long that it was considered rebellious to wear pants. It wasn't that long ago that women were taken to prison for trying to vote. It wasn't that long ago that teachers who married were fired from their jobs. So I dunno, I hold feminism a little dear to my heart.
I have the feminist of yester year to thank for my freedoms I have today as a woman. The feminist of today is annoying. " I am just as good as a man. Only better." Today's feminist is arrogant. Today's feminist needs nothing from a man because she can do it herself! I have not seen a feminist of today do anything positive for women.
You can keep your feminism close to your heart. I don't want it.
I find your post quite silly actually.
Alright, I will keep my feminism. As you seem to want no part in it, please feel free to turn in your pants, lace up your corset, and return to your kitchen.
I believe that women are just as capable as men are. Period. "Just as good as" is not "way better than."
Every single feminist I have ever known believes that women are just as capable as men are. "Just as good as" is not "way better than".
In fact, I've only ever heard the "Feminists think women are better than men!" trope from people who, typically, believe that men are better than women and feel that their toes are being stepped on by people who believe that men are not better than women.
Once again and I'll leave you alone forever:
I believe that women are just as capable as men are. If you don't believe that women are just as good, then you believe they are inherently worth less than a man and should not be judged by merits but by reproductive organs. It's to believe that I am worth less than someone else because I have a uterus and he has a penis. It's to believe that I will never be good enough solely based on my XX chromosomes. To believe that I am not as capable and not as good as a man simply because I am a women is nothing short of masochistic.
Oh, Brother! Drama Drama Drama!
It all comes down to this. if you were a placenta would you want to be killed?
Glutenously yours,
Pasta Rasta
I wouldn't want anything. I wouldn't have a brain.
"What a man does for pay is of little significance. What he is, as a sensitive instrument responsive to the world's beauty, is everything!"
H. P. Lovecraft
If I were a fetus, I would have no thoughts or comprehension. So it wouldn't make a bit of a difference.
no I wouldn't!