This is most likely a very long, but hopefully illuminating blog post. If you are the person who blindly has faith in their religion with no reason--this is likely to offend you. If you are the type of person who cannot put their desire to be "right", to be "correct", to be "logical" for one moment to consider, ironically, yet more logic which seems so absurd to you because it is not your "correct" logic--this is likely to revile you. You have been warned.
Here, I am going to hypothetically assume that God truly does exist, for the purpose of debate.
A bit set off, I've realized that many people have a lot of strange misconceptions about God that just don't make any sense. I'm here to dispell this nonsense, and provide some insight. Also, I believe fully in the existence of God and his power.
But, God is such a loaded word. It has dogma, stigma, and negative connotations abound attached to it--so I shall replace the word God. I shall replace it with Pie. That is correct--God is now Pie. Those of you who may be outraged--yes, I have replaced God's holy, sacred name for Pie. PIE! This is so that all the other odd ideas that come along with the word "God" are washed away. Pie is good, and quite scrumptious. Some people already worship pie. Lucky them.
Pie will not smite me for naming him Pie. If this were the case, if it were a sin to name him anything besides his ultimate, sacred name--it would not be God. In fact, it probably wouldn't be anything. There is a saying: "you shall have no other gods before me." This could be taken literally--or metaphorically. I've heard it said, which makes much more sense--that what is meant by this, is to not worship an idol of Pie. The moment you worship an objectification of Pie--his value is lost. He--no! It! Its value is lost the moment you worship a statue of It, a REPRESENTATION of It--because you are merely worshipping Its image, not It itself. A bastardization of worship! If this were the case, as stated at the front of this paragraph--all of us religious types--we would be smote down to the pits of hell where we stand, for such a grave offense! Or whatever hypothetical damnation-type place you believe in.
Can we agree that Pie is absolutely incomprehensible in every way? Can we also agree that Pie is outside of the realm of time-space (I would say time AND space, but time-space is really more accurate)? If we cannot, consider this--Pie could not be constrained by Its own creation. It created everything--including time-space. If Pie were to be included in time-space--it would be absurd. It would mean Pie would have a location. Pie would have started somewhere--Pie would have started SOME TIME. Who created Pie? Nobody. Nothing can come out of nothing. So, it must be said that Pie has always existed, since the beginning of time-space--no! Not even that. Pie has always existed, infinite, indefinite, and all-encompassing. Nobody created Pie.
Also: Creationism is disproven. It just doesn't work. Rather, Pie created evolution--and It created EVERYTHING.
Pie has always been, and always will be.
So, it would be folly to imagine Pie as a man, or a woman, or even anything--old man, young baby, floating plate of sphagetti, or carnivorous three-eyed sabre-tooth tiger (but man, that would be an awesome Pie to worship). So, the supreme man of logic will shout, "If God--er, Pie, sorry--is completely incomprehensible, then you once again have no proof of anything!"
This, perhaps, may be true--and Pie is incomprehensible. Everyone should know that it is impossible to imagine It. To even dare to believe you could would be unfathomable insolence and arrogance! However, Its creations are comprehensible. Logically, Pie is within everything, since It MADE everything. We can understand until the ultimate point--where logic fails to work. Reason fails to work--even belief and faith fails to work. All that is left is consciousness. Where this point is met with logic, I'm not sure (perhaps quantum physics has answers). However, that will be covered in another blog post.
We can analyze our world! But let me reveal a great truth to you. For ages, science has believed that the world operates as a Great Machine. Quantum physics has claimed to debunk this theory. However, even in another respect--the world is a Great Machine. A machine so great that it fools all its inhabitants. I will say this without any additional explanation, and let you think about it: the world is aligned to three things (and possibly more, but these are the most prevalent in my opinion): your beliefs, your purpose, and your will. This, of course, is affected by the three of other people's--so it can make for a very messy world. Free will is a beautiful but bothersome thing, in the wrong hands. But we all deserve it, and we have it, so we must use it.
But imagine! A Great Machine that is so cleverly designed--that every single person is completely convinced that his or her reality is the absolute truth. But these people... if they are aware, conscious, willing enough--they can stare into the Great Machine, and see its cogs and gears, see it running before your very eyes... Unfortunately, we have no schematics! So we can only take our little monkey wrenches and toy with what we can.
Aha! That reminds me--I shall now disagree with Heaven and Hell. I'm going to title them Doodie and Doodoo, respectively. It's honestly, silly. As I said in a comment: "'Okay, here's your one chance--you get no training, no preparation. You
have to figure this out--if you screw up, you're going to burn in hell
for all of eternity. If you do it right, you get to live in eternal
rapture!'" Tell me. Does this really make any sense, AT ALL? If it does, please explain how this makes sense. The mere idea of it is absurd. Not only that (forgive me, I'm delving into "non-scientific" proof), but people claim to remember past lives and have the most haunting experiences that tell of a past experience, or some inexplicable thing. If you choose to debunk this as a religious person of logic--can you not obviously see how this concept is absurd?
Not only that, but a grand Kahuna saying (I believe they are a "Amerindian" tribe in Hawaii, correct me if I'm wrong) goes: "I cannot offend God. I am too small." Really, in comparison to Pie, we are wholly insignificant and small in comparison to Pie's amazing virtue. As many, many say--Pie is amazingly forgiving. So why would such harsh treatment be even fathomable? Jesus forgave a murderer--and some actually worry they're going to Doodoo for not going to church on Sunday. Come on.
Rather, it is my opinion that when you die, the walls of your own mind's pits are removed, and you are shown to all your own wrongdoings. Your suffering is at the wrath of your own conscience, and your redemption are your good deeds. You suffer this as long as needed, until... well.
For those of you who are on the side of logic, and unconvinced--I can only offer you this: try and believe. Believe what you want. It's quite arbitrary, and you can convince yourself wholly of a certain truth--just never fall into self-deception. It makes perfect sense, if you accept a few givens--for instance, the given that a higher power runs the universe, and has existed since never, ever, and infinity, and will continue to do so. It created the Big Bang. It created everything. Why not? Logic is based off of several givens. The Big Bang is your Pie. Evolution is your Bible. The lot of you total atheists are bigger bible-thumpers than some religious-types, you know. Atheism is practically a religion. ;)
I'm pretty aware that the above paragraph was a really weak argument, but it's true and summed up--I don't care to give my own "proof", since it's not worth much to most people. If you're too terrified of being "wrong" to try something new--so be it.
However, you can follow these guidelines for your experimentations with your belief, with Pie, with the Universe at large:
Pie is infinite and forever.
Pie's creations are comprehensible by the mind and logic--any farther, you must cease thinking. Even faith.
Pie will always make sense, in its own nonsensical way (what I mean by this is that it can be grasped by logic, but in a very subtle and difficult-to-understand way, at first)
Pie is everything; It transcends good and evil, light and dark--Pie is everything.
Faith is powerful, and so is logic. Combine them both, and you have all the power you could possibly need.
Feel free to discuss! Really. I tend to post these long blog posts and nobody discusses them.
Addendum: Pie is the great. Religion? Nowadays, confused, and not-so-great. If you really want to find Pie... find It yourself.
The moment you worship an objectification of Pie--his value is lost.
Also: Creationism is disproven. It just doesn't work. Rather, Pie created evolution--and It created EVERYTHING.
"'Okay, here's your one chance--you get no training, no preparation. You
have to figure this out--if you screw up, you're going to burn in hell
for all of eternity. If you do it right, you get to live in eternal
rapture!'"
"I cannot offend God. I am too small."
The Big Bang is your Pie. Evolution is your Bible.
****
Well I'll be, that's probably the most sense I've gotten out of a blog. I can't object to anything, it makes a whole hellova sense. It was well thought out, interesting, funny, and very smart. It didn't feel self righteous.....I was really impressed.
~ I trust my soul, my only goal is just to be! ~
RENT
That makes no sence at all. Obviously you've never read a bible before right? It's no that if you screw...you will screw up, it is by the human nature that you screw up. Actually in case you were wondering this "screwing up" is called SIN. yes SIN. i have sin in my life and i'm a christian.
ok so heres the big picture, God sent Jesus down to earth to be mortal to look like you and me and to tell the news of what will happen to him. So he ended up dying on the cross, as it was to be, and made the most extreme sacrafice, since during that day, sacrificing meant getting the best lamb and killing it, but God said that wasnt good. But anyway he died, out of great love that is so unfathomable that we can be assured that all our sin or "screw up" is forgiven by God, for what he did. So then he was buried from the tomb, but rose agian which means he's still alive. So now all you must do, as it says in the bible, is to just accept and believe truley that God did this out of love to save us, we will have eternity in heaven
so you make the decision now! you make the choice, heaven or hell!
The only aspect of this love that is unimaginable is how amazingly conditional it is. Believe in a very specific version of a very specific deity or else, you go to hell. And, of course, there is no evidence supporting any deity.
"Every man makes a god of his own desire."
-Virgil
All of the people born before Christ died for our sins? Everyone who never has the word of God taught to them. Everyone who is never even exposed to the idea of a supreme God who loves us?
Don't they only get one chance? One chance to fulfill the commandments that might not even be part of their cultures moral code? If you don't meet certain guidelines, if you screw up...that is sinning, according to you, yes?
Ok. Now tell me, can you sin if you are completely ignorant of said sin?
What if your culture's moral code involves working all the week and praying to, say, the moon. Thats two strikes, and unless you are a Catholic who acknowledges Purgatory, you have just condemned an entire culture to hell.
I think if I read that three times fast your manic mood might be infectious! ;-)
It is a little hard to tell if you beleive yourself. And if you do...what you beleive.
First of all, you have given us no reason to believe that Pie exists. You just asid that, for the sake of argument, lets assume that he does.
"Believe what you want. It's quite arbitrary, and you can convince yourself wholly of a certain truth--just never fall into self-deception." You are actually asking people to choose to stop believing in what they actually do believe in and try to force themselves to believe in something they don't. You- believe in the Giant Flying Spaghetti Monster. Can't do it, can you?
"It created everything. Why not?" Why? You then give the name Pie to the Big Bang. Why worship that? Why not study it?
"The lot of you total atheists are bigger bible-thumpers than some religious-types, you know. Atheism is practically a religion." No, it isn't. We are very passionate about what we believe to be true. We do not worship our lack of belief. And, we would change our minds if one piece of actual evidence was given to us.
"If you're too terrified of being "wrong" to try something new--so be it." When you utterly convinve yourself to believe in the truth of the Giant Flying Spaghetti Monster and try to worship him, then I will try your experiment. It cannot be done. You would be lying to yourself. You would be ignoring what you consider to be truths and be following what you consider to be lies. The same would be true for me. I could say, let's assume that Pie exists, for the sake of argument, then whatever. That does not mean that I think that Pie exists.
"Pie is infinite and forever.
Pie's creations are comprehensible by the mind and logic--any farther, you must cease thinking. Even faith.
Pie will always make sense, in its own nonsensical way (what I mean by this is that it can be grasped by logic, but in a very subtle and difficult-to-understand way, at first)
Pie is everything; It transcends good and evil, light and dark--Pie is everything."
Why? Why does Pie have these attributes? Why not, Pie tastes good. Pie smells good. Pie looks scrumptuous. Pie thinks that you are awesome. Why not those attributes?
"Every man makes a god of his own desire."
-Virgil
That's correct. The purpose of this blog was not to convert you--it was only to enlighten you a bit on the topic of Pie, regardless of your beliefs. That other bit was just a little offer I tossed in if you felt so inclined.
Well, I have been asked/demanded to attempt that experiment several times before, all by the same person. And it is geeting annoying. Oh, and I must say that this is a very well-written blog.
"Every man makes a god of his own desire."
-Virgil
I admit, I'm kind of sitting here at my computer blinking and trying to figure out what to respond to....
I admire what you are trying to say, but... it makes no sense, it think mostly because my religion explains everything that still confuses you. Perhaps it would help if I explained what I believe:
God is like us, except glorified. He has a body (we were created in his image, remember? He spoke with moses "face to face"). This makes him tangible. I concur that he resides outside our time frame, but believe that he can still visit this one, and that he has done so.
On Heaven/Hell and the judgment of life successfulness.... It works like this....
There is only one church with authority from God to exist and administer saving ordinances (like baptism). Naturally since this church has his authority, it would also be given truth. Each person must believe the truth and accept the ordinances... Everyone will get a chance to hear the gospel, whether in this life or the next, before we are judged.
And what if I refuse to believe it? Well, when we die and are judged, there are three different levels of glory and one of damnation. The highest level is where God resides, and it is for those who accept the gospel when there hear it, who live valiant lives, and endure to the end. The middle level is for the good and just people who do not accept the gospel, or for people who accepted it but were not faithful (as in, they wimped out). The lowest level is for people who neither accept the gospel nor lived righteously (in the general sense). These are all remarkable places of varying degrees of traditional heaven-ness. Both the punishment and reward is that everyone lives forever with people who are like them.
The system is both just and merciful. Merciful because even if you mess up, you still receive great mercy and happiness. Just because everyone is still rewarded according to their actions.
(The one level of damnation is actually pretty hard to reach. You basically have to be such a good person that Christ shows himself to you (which is a life-long pursuit) and then deny his existence, blaspheme what you know to be real, or intentionally murder someone. These people are cast out into outer darkness and live in eternal darkness and sorrow. )
Does this make sense to you?
(and Jsaj, he wasn't trying to prove God existed, he was just running through the attributes, trying to understand the assumed. If you want to argue God's existence, go read my post, "The Missing Theological Tidbit".... you'll be topical there)
No, it does not make sense. It paints a pretty picture, but it has no coherence or foundation.
That's the issue I have with religion; it assumes more than can be safely assumed, the only safe conviction: that Pie exists. How could Pie be tangible, and have an image? Is it not said that it is impossible to look upon Pie in all Its glory--and yet we dare to imagine It! As well as, there is already my argument--if Pie exists as a tangible form, he must exist in one location, as opposed to existing within everything. I do not believe Pie has ever visited us, personally. It may have sent messengers (or even angels), yes--but never Itself. Why? Because It is everything. He needs to go nowhere. If It were tangible in its own form, its own location--Pie would burn the ground where he stood in his absolute purity and goodness. Us poor mortals and sinners would most likely go mad in his sight. You may say Pie spoke only to Moses, who was holy enough to witness Its face--but while I don't have another way to dispute this, I say nay. Not even Moses could look upon Pie's splendor. The issue I have, also, with this, is:
What gives your church the right to claim that your Pie is the Pie? Doesn't every other church do that? Every other religion? Most of which have their own holy books, mind--which all claim the same thing. What makes yours the one? Because your church tells you so? I hope this isn't the case.
If you study other religions--you'll find all of them are extremely similar. Scarily similar, in fact (of course, I'm talking about the old and established ones, not the new and wacky ones like Scientology), except in ritual and tradition. The concepts are the same. I cannot stress enough that Pie makes sense, and so do Its orderings. 'Sides, don't your three levels of damnation sound a lot like my self-inflicted Doodoo from your own conscience? That sounds just as just and merciful, at the same time.
Not only that, but if concur with the idea that Pie transcends all ideas--even Good and Evil--then Doodie or Doodoo instantly becomes a moot point. It only makes sense that it is the tortured self that sees, and suffers for its own wrongdoings. Of course, if you disagree, and remain in a duality of good versus evil, Pie versus Satan (now named Cake), then I don't know what to tell you. I think you're limiting yourself.
"My Pie could beat up your Pie... if he felt like hitting himself."
Religion should not be, though often is, the arbitrary conclusions we reach. If I understand you correctly, this is what disgusts you. To me, however, religion is the discovery of truth.
If we could be certain of nothing beyond the existence of some power, or Pie, or whatever, then it wouldn't even matter that we knew that much. Knowledge is significant because we can learn from it, make decisions with it, and study it to increase in knowledge. If it is unsafe to use/study/expand this knowledge in any degree, we might as well not have it.
I agree that if God were to appear to us as we are that we would totally destroyed by the raw power of his glory. However, he's omnipotent, and has the power to protect us by either shielding us from the full blast or changing our bodies so that we can withstand it. According to the record, Moses's face glowed after he talked with God Remember that the Israelites were afraid of it and he had to cover his face with a veil? Besides, if he wanted to show himself to us, he would have a reason he wanted us to stick around for and would therefore do so.
On your argument that God's glory makes it impossible for him to be tangible... We've already reached that the consensus that God cannot reside in this plane of existence, but who is to say that a different plane is as delicate as this one?
=) Amusingly, by your own logic, if Pie is everywhere, and Pie's glory is so great that nothing can withstand it, then everything should already have spontaneously combusted, or Pie does not actually exist, or Pie is not great and glorious. In addition, Pie cannot be both everywhere and not in this existence. Your logic is contradictory.
What disgusts me about religion is that it's often just a way to shirk responsibility, or a way to avoid your sins, avoid going to doodoo, to get to doodie, etc. Religion should be discovery of the truth--yet most people want to be religious and become Sunday people. There's no discovery of truth there--the supposed truth is handed to you on a silver platter. If there is an ultimate truth--then it is definitely objective.
I didn't mean to say that knowledge is unsafe--I meant to say that any "knowledge" somebody else gives you, that you accept at face value--if it does not make sense, at all, to all of your functioning mental facilities, logic, emotion, "soul sense"--WITHOUT BIAS TO ANY, then you should only keep it at arm's length. Knowledge is important, but the only knowledge you can truly rely on is your own, from experience--the rest is just conjecture, until confirmed true or false.
Third paragraph: I can't argue against that, but the next paragraph will tie in a bit.
What I meant by "Pie is everywhere", is that Pie created everything, correct? So, as a law, It is within everything, a piece of It within everything in existence--including us. A small piece of Its divinity. There's a certain meditation that you were able to achieve a certain level of transcendence by focusing on an object with no thoughts--just about any object, in fact. It's my opinion that Pie's true form--would be above and beyond all planes of existence, from which everything else comes from. All other planes are a manifestation of Pie! After all--assuming Pie is made of energy--the "ultimate form" of energy--everything else is also made of energy. Whatever energy is, of course--yet this is a scientific fact (that everything is made of energy). We are just a material mirror to a deeper, immaterial reality (and possibly many more...). "As it is above, so is it below." Or however that quote goes.
What you mean is that you have never seen a religion that is the discovery of truth. And I'm sorry...because I have. And I agree with you in that truth is not subjective, and anything lauded as truth should be carefully scrutentized.
However, it's important to be careful to not outright refuse anything that you didn't conclude on your own. The beauty of the thousands of years of thinkers before us is that we have something to build on; we don't have to assemble our periodical tables from scratch... that is important. It's hard to beleive that every one of the trillions of people who lived before you were wrong. Besides, if they are, what could make you any different besides sheer luck? Yes, we study and weigh...
By what law?
---------
"I always knew I wanted to be somebody. I guess I should have been more specific."
~Unknown
Ah, that's not to say I deny every old law. That's just impractical and silly. :P
I just mean that you should always make sure that it makes perfect sense to you before you follow it. Besides--when it comes to something specific like mathematics--it better make sense to you, or else you don't really know what you're doing.
---
Actually, yes, I am the progressive police.
Are people not reading your blogs?
You are only wasting your time. People who believe in God are least affected by all this. It is a matter between them and their God. There is no place for anybody.
Love all, hate none, keep smiling
i didnt read it all through, i'm sorry, but i did read a lot of it from the top and i agree.
the other day my friend cracked a sexual joke in relation to pie and when people looked at him with a horrorstruck expression, he answered, do you really think if pie existed he'd give a damn about what i just said?
I loved your style. It's awesome. It made me happy. lol. And I agree with most of your points in this *essay?* ... blog. I have come to realize that religion as an institution is completely subjective. If there are objective truths out there about God (or Pie) we will never be able to know them. All we have are inferences of what or who we think God is based on our own experiences (in which the mind is a fickle organ and not to be held accountable) and our surroundings. Is there a God who created everything? I think so. Can I prove that he exists? No. I can't even prove that what I am experiencing in my own mind is a real experience.
Although it may not make sense, Your incoherence throughout the blog captured my full attention. Im not that big of a fan as far as eating pie goes but i do like to make it or watch it be made. ( i know totally irrelevant) I love the metaphors and philosophy used through the whole thing. I can honestly say that it did make sense to me due to the fact, i guess, that I can relate and understand your point of view behind God and his almighty powers!
~ I'm Just Trying To Live Life~
***So DONT Judge ME!***
and your ideology and agenda is as twisted and corrupt as any of the worst examples of religious fundamentalism. Sorry, but far from gaining the high ground, you just proved yourself wrong. ;)
Could you explain more instead of ambiguously "putting me in my place" and leaving a cunning emoticon?
I'd appreciate it.
Edit: Are you assuming that I take a fundamentalist view of the Bible, as in, its literal translation? I can see how you would interpret it that way--seeing as I do talk about it in that nature, because most people do interpret the Bible literally. However, your comment seemed an attack at my own ideology, which is not presented here--these are not ideals, just ideas that make sense. Or perhaps you meant my ideas? But you present no argument. I am wholly, utterly confused. I mean, I mean, I would really, really, really like if you please elaborated.
Because I have no idea what you're talking about. If anyone else can help me, please do.
---
Actually, yes, I am the progressive police.
Are people not reading your blogs?
Well, I enjoyed this one, just as much, if not more, than the other one I read. I honestly really like how you write, even if things do get a bit muddled in my head - that's probably my own fault, anyway. :)
In any case, I basically agree with the ideas you've presented here. These ideas, or variations of them, are the reasons that I am so un-settled as far as religion goes.
By the by - must completely agree as far as your breif comment on religion goes. I am kind of the oppinion that organized religion is a bastardization of faith, spirituality, and worship because it has become more of an object of power and wealth than anything else, which is entirely contradictory to the ideals that the faith it is representing was originally based on.
Anyway...I felt a need to share that thought...now I will go ponder.
Peace
Tahni
-------
"Tell me - if no one ever hears what you say, then why don't you shout it?" -- Floater
i loved it. absolutely adored it. i agree with you in most aspects. and creationsim is disproven? i like the fact that you are very blunt and dont mind saying what you ahve to say. bravo. you have potentially changed my life.
Why question God? I love God and I am not going to question his judgement any time soon. The whole "heaven and hell thing" What makes you think it makes no sense? it is the simpliest thing: Believe in Jesus,ask forgiveness for your sins, and you are going to heaven. don't and you are going to hell. This isn't harsh. He gave you a way out: Jesus. What more do you want? God is not some bad guy trying to punish you. A priest once summed up all the ten commandments in one: Do not do to others what is harmful to you. We are judged on good deeds. This is not some kind of contest. Heaven and Hell are very real, whether you choose to believe in them or not.
I know this wasn't addressed to me, so I'm sorry for kind of, butting or something, but there is just something that I want to say about the ideas of Jesus, forgiveness, and being jedged on good deeds. One of the things that I've had a problem with over the years concerning Christianity, and that many, many people have had problems with, is that, depending on how you interpret the Bible, you only get into Heaven if you beleive in Jesus and ask for forgiveness, not based on whether your good deeds out weigh your bad deeds. This, personally, doesn't seem right or simple to me because it would mean that many good people are damned while many people who led bad lives which damaged the lives of others (a child molester, for example) is allowed into Heaven for his beleif in Jesus. This is something many people take issue with and it's something that many people, scholars and average people like you and me, have discussed for years and still persists in conversations like this one.
I want to say, before checking out, that I don't mean to offen or insult you and I'm sorry if I had. I also want to say that I don't intend to sound judgemental, because I don't want to - I don't judge people for their faith, rather I admire them for it, as it seems to be something that, for me, is hard to grasp. So I don't intend to offend or judge, and I certaintly am not trying to talk you out of your faith, because you should keep it safely, it is a sacred thing. I just wanted to point out that it is an important topic of debate and is cause for so many people taking issue with Christianity.
Peace
Tahni
-------
"Tell me - if no one ever hears what you say, then why don't you shout it?" -- Floater
"It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones."
Luke Chapter 17
You do not have to worry about:
"(a child molester, for example) is allowed into Heaven"
Clear the old Testament out of your head, and read the words of Jesus. If you bring a desire to be good, and serve the truth above your desire for heaven or fear of hell you might get a much clearer picture of what it means.
You will not be as confused as your post suggests about heaven hell and your soul if you do this.
A couple hints:
Beleif in God will not save you. The demons beleive and tremble.
Jesus repeatedly tells you that He is not God.
---
Mathew chapter 22
36Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38This is the first and great commandment.
---
Love the truth
A fact is always better than an ideal
Child molester was the first thing that popped into my head, honestly. Others that I think fall into the category of people I was talking about might be murderers or rapists. Though I am confused about heaven and hell, I feel that my confusion comes more from organized religion, not the Bible itself. I honestly beleive that organized religion has distorted and corupted what the Bible originally offered followers of Christianity, and this distortion is what leads to such confusion as I have and such weakness of faith as others suffer. I do beleive in God, but not necissarily as traditional Christians beleive in God, especially since I'm not Christian...I like to call myself floaty...which is actually means agnostic. :) But I do beleive in a divinity, a creator, and I beleive that all of creation has been guided by that creator. I beleive that this divinity is just and good, though sometimes I have my doubts and I can't say that my faith in this part of my beleif is very strong. I don't think Jesus was God - I used to think he was the son of God, though now I am more of the oppinion that he was an enlightened being, much in the same way as the Buddha was. Um...I'm honestly not sure where I'm going with all of this, and I'm kind of laughing at myself as I realize that. :) I guess I felt the need to explain myself?
In any case - I like your comment. There certaintly is a warmth and kindness about it that is very nice to receive.
Peace
Tahni
-------
"Tell me - if no one ever hears what you say, then why don't you shout it?" -- Floater
the way I deal with what you're saying right now (about how bad people can get into heaven even if they do bad things) is this:
If you believe in God, Jesus, whatever then you will strive to do what God wants you to. If you do such awful things like molestation, murder, then you are arrogant enough to think that you can "get over on god", and arrogance is not something thats condoned. We won't know until we die, but that's how I like to think of it.
That's a good way to think of it. I've never come across this line of reasoning before, and it certaintly makes a good deal of sense. Even with this, though, my concerns still lie with those people who are honestly good people and belong to another faith or have none at all. This concern comes from the fact that a lot of the people in my life who are closest to me are like this: they do good things for other people, lead good lives and are incredibly kind and thoughtful, but they are either pagan, agnostic, or atheist, and the way the Bible is traditionally interpreted doesn't often leave room for people like this. If it's not a bother or anything - and I hope it's not, I really don't intend to be a bother - I am curious to hear your thoughts on this, because it can be hard for me to talk to some of my friends who are devout Christians on this subject.
Peace
Tahni
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"Tell me - if no one ever hears what you say, then why don't you shout it?" -- Floater
This going to sound VERY radical and liberal, but I really don't blame people for not wanting to have a faith in ANYTHING, even Christianity. I think Christianity has gotten such a bad reputation from bad churches and bad teachings. I don't think that 100% of that is with deceitful intentions; it's just that no one tries to open their minds and get truly informed. they accept what they were taught, and many don't try to expand on that in their own lives. My husband was in what I call a cult, and it almost destroyed his faith. It's things like that that is fucking up people's religion, excuse my language, lol.
Christianity,
I guess, Christianity and other religions suffer from fragmentation that brought some individuals to push forward own interpretations in regard to God.
Such actions cause confusion in the minds of believers. In times like these were people are overwhelmed with fear, they become a bit worried and would like to have more prove of the divine one.
I personally believe followers should try and pay more effort in regard to understand the benefits of what “Asian or Indian” interpretations of divine or way of live could offer them. Although they don’t really worship they carry lots of similar points in regard to surounding religions.
And they help to keep spiritual balance in place, something western people are disconnecting of.
Western people are loosing emotion, something essential to feel….
It is not possible for one that lives in fear like most do, to open up awareness and gain from it. Most way’s of thinking put all of these possibilities inside a box that will never open up.
One does not necessarily has to die in order to feel the power that surrounds his universe. And to question it, by desperately looking for answers the way most do is only an example they live in great doubt.
Looking for some evidence of a power that is not to be seen, is same as admitting you’re a nut cake, while your not! It takes to allow oneself to become a nut cake in order to engage and tap into this feeling and power that surrounds us!
But therefore one needs to let go of pie, in order to present itself!
Heaven and Hell are concepts of men, not of the universe, most are searching within a “BOX”.
Consciousness is not to be found within the boundaries of a book (box), but your own soul!
Awareness gives, not makes one ask questions about afterlife.
That you are in pie doubt, sure, but if one can free itself, one will find and “feel” one step or even closer to the “essence” of that doubt!
Aha, you know what you're talking about--but I think you've most likely overstepped the conceptual span of this blog and its readers. ;)
My method is to use a series of accumulative blogs, and gradually build up to that lesson. Most people don't take it too well if you just start telling them that sort of thing--they don't have the background knowledge, information, or insight to just do that.
Then, I'm assuming that people would find this through a path of knowledge--which is how I found it. Possibly one of the bumpiest roads there... but most satisfying to the logical ego, wouldn't you say?
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Actually, yes, I am the progressive police.
Are people not reading your blogs?
I love the pie method, thank you for pointing out the essence of your blog.
I will say no more!
Can’t wait for the next one….erase my past comment if you like, because I can’t, not that I feel,
GUILTY!… lol
Thank you,
i enjoyed reading this- it was, without a doubt, pretty LONG! But worth my time, maybe you should have cut the Pie in two? haha, nevermind, i'm just being stupid...
but i liked the points you were making....it would be nice to think and accept things in the perspective you present but...either way, it's all between me and my Pie :)
"Things have a life of their own. It's just a matter of waking up their souls."
--Gabriel García Márquez
http://www.progressiveu.org/231615-this-is-a-muslim-girls-plight
Hmm I catch my self reading this blog and i feel my eyes being opened to how people percieve God... if, they say they believe in him. OK some might believe in God and what the bible says, just because you had it spoon fed to you all your life... or, you can believe because you know its true in your heart. How do you know its true in your heart? I believe thats where faith comes in.. faith in something you can't see.. Cant see God right? I believe once you take that step towards faith in God. (The God im talking about is the God mentioned in the Bible) Then you begin to know in your heart that God is real and God is evident in your life. I believe God brings Hope, Peace, Love, Purpose in life, Freedom from self guilt and shame, more then that actually. Once you just take that initial step towards him. That step of faith by believing in God also, accepting his gift for us ,which is Jesus. Because only when you accept Jesus , that is when you understand what i am talking about. Hard to understand .. easy to grasp. Jesus did walk this earth, he did say he was God's Son and he did die for this world. He healed people and did great things. As i said before its that initial step towards God that can bring true enlightment.
True enlightment, how did it feel?
Well I started to believe in God and make efforts to take steps of faith to understand and know God. As i made efforts to read the bible and pray. Then i began to come across bible scriptures that really spoke to me and change my life. As i did these things I felt peace in my heart that i had never felt before, I felt a connection with God. I know that i can alwasy talk to him and he can speak to me. God has spoken to me through the Bible, events , and people. To be honest, what people told me and certain theories of creation didnt sway my opinion to belief in Him. What really triggered that step to him was God's unconditional love for us. Unconditional love = He loves you no matter what. It says in the bible, if i may qoute it here, "While we were still sinners Jesus Christ died for us." God gave his Son Jesus as a sacrifice for all of our sins, so that we dont have to live under condemnation but live in hope and peace ,and know that we are saved from hell. Understanding God's Grace and uncodtional love caused me to take that step of faith towards God, and it brought a change in my heart. In my heart there is a confidence and hope, its really hard to explain, but it happened and im thankful.
Please know I’m not a follower, but this is of no importance in regard of what I will tell you.
The way you wrote has opened up an understanding like a door in my mind in order for me to see inside your believe. This was very cool because I could relate to your experiences!
Please know I do follow you throughout the whole of your writing. I can deeply connect to the part when you mention “peace in my heart” that you never felt before.
I care about life around me, because I see beauty all around me, it helps me to deal with the sadness of live. I always wanted to know why this sadness had such effect on me, in my heart I could feel sadness while on the outside I was shining.
Music gave me all the answers I needed, helping me deal with this sadness inside that was affecting my dreams, fears and identity, therefore making me feel lost in a world were no one understood!
Music is one of the most genuine emotions that can touch me in the heart bringing me the same peace you have beautifully found in the Bible, making us share something in common! We find peace in our hearts!
I have been here for 2 weeks and found lot’s of splendor to read, it has brought me peace and make’s me feel like If I’m dwelling inside the engine room of the next generation.
Two weeks, and it took this blog to understand better to stop fighting, and have some peace, there is an abundance of peace inside this platform affecting me already.
I guess, I will have to apologize to a few people I bummed into, and go my own way inside to find a place were it’s chilling, have no need to read the daily’s everyday, this platform brings the best news in the world to surface!
This platform I consider like evil and good having a serious talk! I love this place, regardless of what happens outside our doors, people come together and meet on this platform that offers any flavor of discussing on a silver plate.
Whether its to vent frustration or to share some beautiful experience, we mingle with one another in our fighting, fun, sadness and fears! But more important we stay, we come back for more of that emotion we share together.
Thanks again, great exchange
I like the pie method, it takes away a lot of the preconceived connotations that come with the words of God and Hell, but you can still get your point across (a very good point which I personally find myself agreeing with), albeit it appears from your disclaimer that you expect to be preaching to the choir
Your comments on religion are well thought out and I respect your views. However, personally, I disagree with them.
Your blog does not focus on religion as a whole, but only on Christianity. In addition, Christianity does combine faith with logic. The Bible teaches not only faith in God, but faith in yourself. Only when you truly believe can you succeed.
When does one come or what does it take in order to become, a true believer?
This is an interesting take on Christianity or everything else in between. I will steal this statement made by someone who was very smart that says, "it is not what you call something that makes it what it is". I do not know how GOD or JESUS CHRIST became names to conjure up offense, I think it is very sad, but that is not from GOD, that all came about by man's doing. God has many names, do some research. Originally, he was just called "THE GOOD" before being called GOD. I do agree that it is all about what one believes, when an individual becomes a believer then those ancient words, translated in to what we now know as the Bible - becomes alive! You will no longer have to intellectualize it, or even have a need to defend it to non-believers, there is just a deep knowing. God is going to exist whether people believe in him or not, and he must be glorified in the earth - that's just it! Our main purpose in the earth is to glorify his name, by living every aspect of our lives in accordance with his Holy word.
There is not defense here, because I have witnessed his hand in my own life each and everyday.
Be Blessed.