...why so many people are psychotically against same sex marriages. Because I am still, to this day, having an insanely difficult time grasping the concept.
I'm not gay, let me point this out. So no, I don't have an "agenda". I really don't have any type of "agenda". I have opinions, all of which I like to back up with logical reason, a character trait I am proud of since so many people seem to lack it. I do however, know a lot of gay people, gay men in particular. And, I have seen a lot of absolutely retarded rhetoric when it comes to the whole debate. So, to start off, here are the top 5 reasons people believe gay marriage should be banned.
1.) In the bible, it is a sin (depending on how you read the bible, but we won't go there). Marriage is a 3000 year old institution and "screwing around" with it is a bad idea. There is a reason it has stayed the same over the many generations (Oh Anne Coulter, you senseless slut you).
2.) It will hinder/harm/denounce/make less of heterosexual marriages.
3.) Marriage, and the privileges that come with said commitment, are set aside for those who can procreate, and if gay marriage is legalized, our population will diminish because gay people can't procreate (main argument of Tenn. Rep Bill Dunn)
4.) Kids need both a mommy and a daddy.
5.) Being gay is a "choice", and thus can not be equated to the civil rights movement of African Americans and women, as they were "born that way".
Okay, deep breath here, because typing those in general made me want to slam my head on my desk. So, that's just a starting off point. A lot of people probably have other opinions as to why gay marriage is bad, but those are the big ones. So, here we go folks, why all 5 of those "arguments" are just ridiculously stupid.
1.) Thanks to a little document called the Constitution, "religion" and religious ideas of morality are not the laws of this fabulously democratic land of ours. While many Christians (and Jews for that matter) think our laws are based on Judeo-Christian morals, they aren't. They are basd on good old common sense, something most mainstream religions have absolutely none of. So until Jews get a law passed saying no one is allowed to mix meat and cheese because the Torah says it's a sin, this whole "The Bible says it's wrong" thing really isn't cutting it. Oh yeah, and that whole "separation of church and state" thing.
As for Coulter's brain fart, I'll just assume she never took any history classes, never saw braveheart, read or saw pride and prejudice, never took a romantic or victorian literature class, and never visited cultures outside of the down home country folks of American. This 3000 year old institution she speakss of has had more image changes than Madonna. Marriage was not always the swoon, romance, soul mate, down on one knee, throw the bouquet and everyone lives happily ever after in an upperclass white suburban neighborhood with 3 kids a dog and an SUV she seems to think it's always been. Marriage, for a majority of time, was a business agreement between two families. Last I checked, a girl who wanted to get married didn't need to have some form of payment in order to coax the guy into it dowry). Last I checked, Americans weren't being pawned off to rival families in order to unite and gain land and property. Last I checked, most women (though there are exceptions) don't date for 4 days, see a good name and get hitched within a week. And as for the traditional values of marriage, there ARE still arranged marriages in other cultures, there ARE still people who practice polygomy (in the non child molestor way...think Big Love), and there ARE still people who challenge the institution of marriage on a daily basis. So to assume that marriage has always been this "my best friends wedding" type of affair, is typical of the bitch's lack of information.
2.) I don't know what kind of marriages homophobic conservatives (not to turn it political, but to generalize) have these days, but if their entire marriage and relationship hangs in the balance of OTHER people's marriage and relationship, maybe it's not really the gays fault there. My hair dresser is gay (no stereotype jokes here). He has a gay boyfriend, who is has been dating for four years. He's 27. I have been seieng my boyfriend for a year now, and pretty much figure that he's the one I'm going to end up with. Now if I were to get married, and my friends were to get married, on my wedding day I would not think to myself "hmm, this marriage means nothing anymore because this guy and this guy are getting married! To hell with my marriage and relationship!". And if someone pulls that, they are looking for a cheap way out. If your marriage revolves around what other people do with their lives, maybe you should consider some counseling. I didn't think having people WANT a monogomous relationship hunders the idea of marriage, I thought people NOT wanting the monogomous relationship hinders it. You know, adultery, divorce, etc?
3.) Oh Bill Dunn, sometimes I have to think secretly you are a gay activist, because no one would say something that ridiculously stupid and look at it as a "goal for their side". Using Bill's logic of the whole "if we legalize gay marriage our population will die out", we could then assume that after interracial marriages were legalized, EVERYONE, even people who were in relationships with members of their own race, suddenly jumped ship and swam over to the "I want to make multiracial babies" booze cruise. Now, seeing as we still have solid white, and solid black, I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume that just because something became legal, didn't mean it made everyone want to do it. Gay people who want to get married, are gay regardless of whether or not they can get married. Letting gay people getting married isn't suddenly going to turn the entire population gay, this rendering it physically impossible to conceive a child within a marriage that would have the genes of both parents. After all, invitro is a fabulous thing. As for the idea he posed that marriage is a rght afforded to those who can procreate because marriage is meant to make families. Well then, with that logic, why don't we just ban any woman who is barron or any man who is infertile from ever getting hitched also. Because clearly since they can't procreate the population that is apparently going to decrease after gay marriage is legalized, they have no reason whatsoever to marry. Love ain't a thing. And I mean adoption, clearly out of the question. You know what, we should make people sign a contract saying "I swear after i get married i will have babies and populate the earth just liek Bill Dunn wants me to", this way people who dont want kids won't be able to get the benefits either. Yep, marriage is all about the babies, and Bill Dunn is out to make sure there aren't any loiterers outside the real reasons to get married store.
4.) Tell that to the thousands of children who have been afforded two loving parents who support them, help them, and encourage them. Tell that to the single mothers and fathers (like my mother) who work hard every day to be both parents for their children. Tell that to me, the girl who lost her father at 16, and has been given strength and meaning from my mom's courage and support. Tell that to the thousands of coke addicts, pot heads, murders, high school drop outs, teen mothers, who had a mommy, a daddy, a bmw, and every opportunity in the world to squander. Tell that to the child who has an abusive mother, an alcoholic father, and a complete lack of support. Having a mother and a father doesn't make a good kid. Having PARENTS that are involved and care and teach makes good kids.
5.) Here's a challenge for you; if you are a straight man, go up to another man, kiss him, and see if you get an erection. In fact, see if you feel anything at all. Do you consciously choose to be heterosexual? Do you make the choice daily to be straigth instead of macking it with other guys or girls? No. It's just what you do. I am straight, therefor I like guys. I like penis, I like sex with guys, end of story. I have kissed a girl before (drunk), and felt nothing. IN fact, I was a little skeeved. I was not aroused, and in general I never look at girls with attraction. It's just not in me to do so. So now imagine someone telling you or me that we could change all that; We could make ourselves like other men or women. Wouldn't you be like "um, no, I like the opposite sex, sorry, it's not working"? Of course you would. Because you can't change what is just inside you to feel. Being heterosexual is an innate quality, you didn't CHOOSE to like the opposite sex, it's just what you do. So to assume that someone chooses on a daily bases to go against what they really want and hook up with guys, is ridiculous. RIDICULOUS.
So there you have it folks. I've yet to find an anti gay argument I couldn't destroy, but if you have one, go for it. Enlighten me. Tell me why we should continue to have one generalized, white, upperclass idea of what a family is, when our country is filled with divorce, widows, wiidowers, single moms, single dads, adopted kids, step brothers and sisters. Keep telling those families who have gay kids, gay parents, gay uncles, aunts, sisters, brothers, that their family isn't "real", that they don't matter because they don't have a mom baking cookies and a dad making the money. Go ahead. Just keep in mind that segregation was once the "traditional" value in this country. It was once a tradition to make white people seem superior to black people. It was once a tradition to forbid love between races. It was once a tradition to OWN PEOPLE. Traditions are not always right. There is always room for improvement. Everyon deserves to pursue happiness, and who among any of us have a right to dictate what constitutes "happy"?
















You are one smart cookie! More Power to you!
~~Miss Priss
I must admit, I am not for gay marriage.
My position is stated as such because I believe marriage is a religious thing. However, it is up to the religion to decide, not the government.
Note: This is NOT to say that I'm against gays whatsoever. Some of my best friends are gay, and I love them dearly. However, I don't believe the government should be able to dictate this, which is pretty much where all of the gay marriage arguments spawn from.
Basically, I'm always careful when talking about gay marriage, just because marriage is religious in nature and should be a religious issue; thus, marriage should follow religious guidelines.
If marriage were strictly a religious thing, then you wouldn't have to sign a marriage lisence to get all the tax "benefits" that come with marriage. There is a religious side to marriage, but again, were it strictly religious, there would be no married atheists.
Marriage is, in fact, a civil thing in the United States.
I think the legal benefits of marriage should be entirely separate from the religious/spiritual/cerimonial part of marriage. Any commited couple (including homosexuals) should be allowed to recieve the legal benefits of marriage. The government should not have any control over the religious/spiritual/cerimonial side of marriage. Churches should not be required to preform marriages for people they don't think should marry; if you still want a religious/spiritual/cerimonial marriage you should find someone else to preform it.
Marriage was around long before Christianity became the religion of the times.
not knockin u or anything but your so called religious thing was instituted by MAN!!! long long time ago, marriage or a union was verbal, then it was physical cuz once u did the deed u were married. then it became well i wanna do the deed but i don't wanna live wit you for life so unless this guy says we r married we're not married.
i think a lot of people r against gay marriage just because of religion but its not a religious thing.
Brown
Amen sister!
If marriage is strictly a religious thing, what do atheists and agnostic people do? Why can people get married in a court room? This is a bad mentality, it is not simply a religious thing people do. I am the furthest thing from religious, and I plan on getting married. Not because my religion tells me to or okays it, but because I want to get married because I love somebody.
And as was mentioned, marriage has a government involved stance too. Tax benefits, joint accounts, health care plans...these ebenefits are awarded by the churches synoogues or mosques. If a gay mand and a gay man, both agnostic, wish to get married on a beach in the bahamas with a judge doing the service, how does religion have any say in that? Gays aren't asking to have a full fledged catholic mass to go along with their vows, and if that wre the case, I'd say fine, this religion doesn't agree with it, no dice on expecting them to change their bible. But the fact that states won't recognize marriage on the basis of "religion" says that maybe religion has way too much influence on what the governments doing these days...
You say you are not "for" gay marriage. Besides the religious thing, why? Would someone else's marriage really truly effect you, your life, or the way you live on a daily basis? Would it really be that much more noticable if the gay couple that is already a couple that lives across the way from you (hyothetical) wore matching rings? Honestly?
Oops, I meant those benefits are NOT awarded by the churches, synogogues or mosques. Ha.
Also, on a side note, if you want to associate marriage with religion, we should probably assoctae birth as well. So clearly, if you are a gay woman, or a single woman, or you just don't follow a religion, you shouldn't be able to have a child because the Bible CLEARLY (note the sarcasm) references the abomination of a.) premarital sex and b.) children born out of wedlock.
Like I said, until the Jews pass a law saying it's illegal to mix meat and dairy, or the Muslims pass a law saying it's okay to kill people if they don't convert to a specific religion, or the Christians pass a law saying that no one can have sex until they are married, preventing gay marriage based on the "moral" stance is pretty hypocritical. The Bible also condemns glutony and lust, but you don't see McDonalds, sex shops/porn shops, or their overweight and oversexed customers that go in there getting arrested. Fat people = probably a glutton = commiting a sin = illegal? Um. No.
As I sit and eat my sweedish meatballs, I wonder how there could ever be kosher laws passed on a civic level... certainly the best that could be done is increased taxes on foods like the one I am currently "enjoying". I don't think that in the land of the McFree any food would ever be illegal. It's bad for business.
The thing that gets me, and this is almost completely off topic; is how these (specific kinds of) Christians say homosexuality is wrong because the Bible says so; and yet when I ask them why they don't adhere to Kosher laws, they quote something out of the NT that says all the old laws don't count. How's that supposed to work? All the old laws except the one against homosex don't count? That's convenient. Let's see how do we spell hypocrisy again?
I had no idea we only get to follow certain rules, and the others are thrown out the window (hear the sarcasm in my voice)! This is what I mean, people are full of bullshit.
I never let my schooling interfere with my education. - Mark Twain
I live in a rural southern area where it is automatically wrong to be gay. Does it have something to do with the 10 churches in an area with a population count of 3000, or the general attitudes of the population? I’ve had this discussion with the people I know many times and find there are very few that have the same beliefs as me.
It isn’t a choice for a man to love a man, he was born that way. If two guys want to get married, I am happy for them. And we can turn the bible around and say that same sex marriages should be allowed so the amount of sex before marriage is decreased. I mean, which sin is worse: sex before marriage or same sex marriage?
Those guys getting married…are they going to be in your bedroom afterward? No? Then they should have no affect on your own marriage. What they do in their own home is not for you to criticize. They don’t look at you and tell you that you’re wrong for marrying someone of the opposite sex.
Who is to say that being gay isn’t like a religion? What if the gay community established a book they called their “bible”? Would it be honored the same way the Christian bible is upheld? Or the Torah? Could they establish a god, such as the Buddha, and then get more respect?
Same sex marriages would not take away the rights of others; it would give more people the rights they deserve. Christians say places such as Wal-Mart are wrong for their actions; why are you not being a Christian and letting your God do the judgments?
Terrible situation to be in. I'm an atheist, and I know of a few people who question it, but I bring out a few things from their religious text that don't correspond (ie, "Why aren't you out slaying the damned, or praying for god? The bible says you should.") Start catching them in lies and common assumptions.
Your best bet to really fighting hypocrisy like this is start to quote Levictis (sp?). Levictius (sp..) appears to be this crazy bastard who somehow got into the bible. I think he bribed his way into the lives of hte creators of the bible. Perhaps got them drunk or something. Anyway, there are a lot of delicious quotes from this guy that would damn nearly every christian in America. When they say that since he's in the old text it doesn't matter, ask them if gays should be able to marry. They'll say no, and then it's your job to say "But Levictus (I should really stop trying..) is the only one who seems to even vaguely point towards homosexuality being wrong. Show me somewhere in the bible where it states explicitly that homosexuality is wrong or sinful."
If you're lucky, you'll get a mumble. Probably though, that's about time for them to go pray or whatever excuse they've got.
____
If a society is willing to give freedom for temporary security, they deserve neither.
this could be the best arguement against the anti-gay opinion.
wurrrd sista
sister afta my own heart. u took the words right out of my mouth and i definitely plan to post my own blog expanding on this marriage as a religious institution thing among other things.
definitely feeling ur words.
Brown
Dear Dr. Laura,
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.
I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them.
a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?
e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?
g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die?
i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help.
Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.
Your devoted disciple and adoring fan.